Hi,i was just wondering what this term really means,sorry to sound thick but does it mean that people breed dogs that are related to each other.

Yes, that's right. It's less of a gamble than completely out-crossing, and the results are generally much better.
:)

Is there not a chance of mutations like the one of the cat that was in the papers the other day.Surely people don't mate mother and son do they?

Line-breeding is where you mate dog and bitch who have common ancestors three or four generations back, and is the system used by the great majority of successful breeders.

Line-breeding (and its more extreme form, in-breeding, where you get father/daughter, mother/son, half-brother/half-sister matings) cannot create problems. It can only highlight what is already there. For example, if both parents carry a recessive gene, they won't outwardly show that they have it. By mating them together you are doubling up on it, and the recessive comes to light, showing that both were carriers. Once you know that, you make sure not to mate either of them to another carrier.

It can also 'fix' good points as well as bad, so can be a very useful tool in breeding quality animals, but is only recommended for the very knowledgeable person, for whom the animals in the pedigree are not just 'names', they are known individuals, with all their characteristics known.

Out-crossing, where dog and bitch are unrelated, is a complete gamble, and tends to produce, at best, mediocre dogs, especially if it's done repeatedly, generation after generation.

Mutations are entirely unpredictable, and can occur with any mating, whether in-bred, line-bred or out-crossed

So when someone uses the word zero dogs does that mean that they are not line bred.I have been reading on a website and just not understanding what they mean by it all.
Thanks by the way

'Zero dogs' isn't a phrase that I've ever found in studies or books on genetics; I'm afraid I have no idea what they mean by it.

I know that if I came across a pedigree where there was no connection between any of the names (ie, all outcrosses down the generations) I would be very unlikely to buy the pup.
:)

It was on a husky website and they said they started out with all zero dogs.I'm glad it isn't just me that had not heard of this phrase.(can't do smiley's)I only started reading up on this as i was wondering why my dogs pedigree had what looked to be a lot of dogs with same affix names.As i am not very knowledgable on this line breeding i was a little worried.
Thanks again
ps the zero dogs are not in my dogs background just stumbled across the site

Without knowing the lines in your dog's pedigree, if it has clear family lines it sounds promising. For a start it means the breeders haven't just been having "just one litter from dear Flossie, because she's so sweet", but instead are planning for the longterm.
:)

Names with the same affix are like a surname.  The dogs will have been bred byt the same breeder and may or may not be related.  Most serious breeders register and pay to maintain an affix so that sogs bred by them can be easily identified as being so.

My affix is Barbelka, so all my dogs that I breed are Barbelka something.  You can have a name up to 26 letters long including the affix.  You can add your affix to the end of the name of a dog you buy in.  My oldest is Eskamere (her breeders affix) Yarla (her individual name) at Barbelka (my affix).

"Zero" is actually an American breeder's affix. Basically "Zero's" were bred for sprint racing speed and (although there are exceptions) tended to be fairly small, slender and light-coated. They were imported into GB and have been used with great success in sprint-racing although rarely shown as many of them are even too extreme for some of our racing-obsessed "breed specialist" judges. From what I recall, the actual breeding lines are not dissimilar from the "Lokiboden" lines that are still popular amongst some breeders. However, some individuals and organisations have raised questions about the purity of the Zero lines and some years ago they were banned from taking part in any races organised by BSHRA (British Siberian Husky Racing Association) although as far as I know, SHCGB and ABSA races still allow them. My own view is that the lines are probably pure, but if you breed several generations for one characteristic - sprint-racing speed - and that alone, the dogs produced will very soon begin to deviate from breed standard irrespective of the "purity" of the lines.

Thanks for explaining that, MickB! It's made it all much clearer.
:)

Although I line bred upto a point I plan on using my boy on my next generation so have decided not to go close. The sire on both the dogs I plan on using for my girls are grandad on the girls pedigree but the other side is totally unrelated.  Both are champions so therefore they both the results of outcrossings.

Not quite sure I agree JG about "outcrossing producing mediocre dogs at best" both the dog and bitch CC record holders for my breed are both outcrossings and as the bitch is the daughter of the dog then the qualities have been passed onto the next generation.

I tend to go for a dog with that has got a quality that my dogs havent.  For example my oldest girl is fantastic structully but spots wise awful.  Although we have improved with the spots we have used a dog with impecable spots on the girl I have in whelp now because I am still not happy with that side of her. I am also a movement freak so both the dog and bitch have fantastic movement.  My younger girl has got movement as well but she is more of a cart horse whereas her sister is more of a race horse!!! Therefore I have chosen a dog with similiar movement and type to her.

Another point is you can linebreed if there is something suitable within your line.

I think it is one of those subjects really where everyone has their own opinion and everyone is right in their own way but you just have to choose which is best for you!

As you and I are in the same breed, thomas-the-spot, you can bet your bottom dollar that about 6 or 7 generations back the pedigrees of the two lines that produced that particular dog had names in common. I've not come across a show-dal yet that didn't have at least Colonsay April Jest and Ivelda Iris away back there!

A careful out-crossing can be very useful to try to introduce a particular trait, but then it's advised to go straight back to line-breeding the next few generations to consolidate the new good point and minimise the faults that will have unavoidably been introduced at the same time.

Continual out-crossing down through the generations is very unwise. Perhaps I should have worded it "repeated out-crossing produces mediocre dogs at best".
:)

Got to say you are probably right.  I dont consider myself an authority on this subject as I have not been breeding long enough to know and can only go on my observations in the current show dogs.

I dont recall seeing either of the above mentioned dogs in Tommy Brocks pedigree (I am very luck to have one of this daughters - although some might disagree) but I am trying to a research to go back to all the original dogs using old handbooks etc.  If I find it I will let you know.  From what I have found by talking to a lot of more senior members at shows is that even established lines that traditionaly line breed seem to be going out to different lines.  As I said earlier the problem lies in if there is not a dog within your lines which you like.  Took me 3 years to find the perfect match for my beloved girl.  One of the reasons we kept Thomas is that we do realise that in order to obtain better spotting we may have to sacrifice something else and he has a lot of the qualities we desire in a dog.

This is pretty much the same in most breeds. In a numerically large breed such as Labradors, in a 5 generation pedigree she is the result of a complete outcross. Go back another two generations and you find the first dog to appear on both sides. By ten generations and there are very few dogs which DONT appear on both sides! Baby to be is the same. Outcross to 5 generations, 5 appear in the sixth generation and by the tenth generation approximately two thirds are doubled up.

People don't realise just how tight their pedigrees really are. There is no such thing as a real outcross in dogs.

Regards, John

how much are affixs

Have a look on the KC website they will have a upto date price I think they around £80.00 plus the renewel fee each year.