i have asked this question when i was a guest, but did'nt get much response. It's probably because the subject of colour genetics is so complicated! i have a pregnant brindle bitch who"s parents were brindle dam/ red sire. the stud dog i used was blue as was the four  generations before him. what i would like to know is will brindle domante the litter or am i likey to see any reds ect.

I am not that up on it but i would imagine you would get tiger brindles if you are luckly maybe reds? how brindle is she?

she is a striking dark tiger brindle but with vivid red stripes

I agree.  Now correct me if I am wrong but I was led to believe that blue is a recessive gene meaning both parents need to carry the gene to produce blue pupes.  It is actually just a dilution of black, so if your bitch carries  the blue gene then there may be blue pups although I would tend to agree that you should really just get a mix of brindles.

Staffy colour is a bit more complicated than Labrador and there are some ifs and buts!

Very dark brindle does occur in the breed and this can sometimes make a genetically brindle dog appear as a solid black (or blue if he is dilute). 

So......if the blue sire is a true blue his genotype would be  -  AyAy  K_  dd  

Ay - is for sable (red) which most if not all Staffies have (there may be a low incidence of at tanpoint or other alleles in this series)
K  - is for solid dominant black which overides the red
d  - is for dilute which turns black to blue

The dam would be  - Ay Ay  Kbr k  D_

Kbr - is for brindle which puts dark stripes on red
k   - is for non brindle and allows solid red to form
D   - is for full colour and allows black to form (in this case, just on her stripes)

From this combination any of the recognised Staffie colours are possible  -  black, brindle, red,  if the dam carries dilute also the dilution of these - blue, blue/cream brindle, dilute red.  And if they both carry piebald, any of these colours with white markings.  But I assume because you haven't mentioned piebald, and blue in the dam's breeding, there isn't much chance of them carrying. 

And if the sire doesn't carry anything but black on the K locus, all the pups will be black.  If he has produced anything other than black or blue (with or without white markings) in previous litters, this proves that he does carry and you could then get reds and brindles as well as black.  Even so, each puppy born has a 50:50 chance of being black so this is your most likely colour IMHO :-)

Sorry it is a bit complicated,  I hope some of it makes sense.

Julie

thankyou for that julie. the stud's last litter was a smashing one. there were two blue, two white and blues (piebalds) and a fawn and white. yes colour genetics is very confusing, but im eager to learn.

So the sire is Kk.  You could get reds and brindles, blues and pieds still a possibility but black is the most likely.  Look forward to hearing when she whelps :-)

Julie

To Julie
Actually I've been looking for black blanketed BH for some time. It still called black&tan, however it could be quite different looking dog! There is no color diferentiation in breed and what am I suppose to do ? Nobody  can guarantee, there will be even one in litter. Breeders are geting mad, when I ask: whats the probability for bb&tan in Your litter..... Any advise for me Julie ?

Hello Katherine

I see that black & tan is listed as undesirable in the breed so not surprised if there are not too many of them around.  All staffy colours are dominant to tanpoint pattern, so it would only crop up in a litter if both parents carried it. 

I know absolutely nothing about Staffy bloodlines and the colours they carry.  Your best bet would be to speak to as many breeders as possible.

Julie, Katherine's looking for a bloodhound, not a staffy! ;)

Oops sorry, though we were still on Staffies!

The saddle pattern in Bloodhounds may be a separate allele to tanpoint (restricted tan markings) on the A locus.  The alternative is that it's produced by modifying genes which extend the amount of tan on a tanpoint.  Either way, more-tan is dominant to less-tan so it is possible that tanpoint pattern is still present in the breed but as before, both parents would have to carry to produce it.

If there has been selection for more and more tan over the years, it could be that tanpoint is very rare.  I'm not sure if the solid red that occurs in the breed is faded saddle or sable red.  Both would be born dark but the patterning would differ as they mature but again either way, red is dominant to tanpoint.

Sorry Katherine, not much help.  You will have to find breeders who know which lines are most likely to carry the colour you desire.

Julie

OK, thanks anyway. As far as I know, red is dominant  and black is recesive gene in BH color. I gon't know much obout genetics, but i suppose it depends on breed, which one is dominant and which one is recessive one, am I right? I actualy don't know if I could find black BH dog (somethimes it happens) and black BH bitch could they possibly produce black puppies?

I didn't know black occured in the breed, or do you mean black & tan?  If you do mean black then there are at least two types of black.  The most common is dominant and found in breeds like the Retriever and Spaniel breeds.  A few breeds have recessive black eg GSD, BSD, Finnish Lapphund.

If you mean black & tan...there is only one gene for this so inherited the same way in all breeds.  It is recessive to most colours, the only exception is recessive black.  There are some other colours that can be "hidden" by black & tan but more accurate to refer to this as epistatic not recessive.

If you bred  two B&T BH together you should get only tanpoints.  They could be black and tan or, if both parents carry liver, liver and tan.  There could be other rare colours in the breed that I don't know about but you wouldn't get reds or saddles from tanpoint x tanpoint.

Julie

Blanketed black (with predominant black) color is still called black&tan. Don't no why, actually? What means completly different colored dogs are named black&tan. Somethimes look like black doberman and somethimes like German Shepard - I mean color all the time.

Well yes.  Back & tan just means black with tan markings.  Tanpoint is the restricted tan pattern as in Dodermanns, sometimes called bicolour.  Saddle is the pattern usually seen in Hounds and Terriers and most GSDs, though bicolour does occur in Shepherds.

hay what up if this helps i had a full brindle bitch and a brindle male with a white chest and ended up with 3 red pups they were dark brindle by the way.

thats because brindle is red with stripes on top or the other way around (depends what colour brindle the dogs are)
i have had 2 pure black staffords that had a little or 2 blacks 3 light brindle and 2 pure white

i think the only time you know what colour you are getting is when you use to reds, cos 2 reds will only have reds or red and white or red pied its when you add a little brindle that all the other colours come in

Bloodhound colours: Basically everything has a base colour of "red" (This is the colour that resembles a fawn great dane) You also get what we call "black & tan" which is the red with a black saddle. (looks like gsd for clarification:) ) Then there is blanket black & tan (which looks like dobe/rott) there is also  Liver & tan & blanket liver & tan. Hope this helps :)

Hi, I know this is complicated but I have a question re coat colours in dogs, specifically related to breeding.
So I just had a beautiful litter of 9 pups with my maiden bitch - she is a blue dog with typical.collie white markings around her neck, paws, tip of tail and blaze on nose etc (oh and white stripe tummy) - she's a 3/4 greyhound 1 /4 collie (her mum was a blue greyhound, her dad a half collie x greyhound)
I mated her with a whippet x first cross bedlington - he is brindle and his mum was a black first bedlington x and his dad a whippet.
I was expecting some brindle pups but she produced 5 black pups and 4 blue pups (with some very small white splashes here and there)
So its like they've thrown back to their grandmothers colouring!
My question is, do pups coat colours change (they are one day old now) - ie will a brindle colour develop in any of the black or blue pups (there are slight variations on hue especially with the blue pups) ie could the blues end up "blue brindle" - I'm just really surprised there are no brindle pups (as yet) direct from the stud dad coat colour :-)
Many thanks for any knowledge - I'm so fascinated by the whole genetics in dogs...and this is my first litter, something I've wanted to do for 30 years!

You might want to repost your question in it's own rught(omitting the breeds as this isn't allowed unless the question is breed specific)

As to your question you are aware that Brindle is not a colour it's a colour pattern carried on a recessive gene & to show the pattern a dog has to carry 2 copies of the gene.

As this is a very old thread u would be better starting a new one u are ,more likely to get answers