Here goes - I'm not too good at posting.

My lad (labrador) is now 18 months old, and although a very keen retriever and sometimes a good return to me and hand over we seem to be having problems.  So, heres the situation.

Ask him to sit, throw out and he waits for me to send him - send him - now he'll go and get it head back to me, but then as he approaches its like he's taking the mickey! He'll either do as he's told and let me have the item, and then sit for another go, or he'll take the item and stick two fingers up.  Do I go back to a long line and make him bring to me, I had to do this to reinforce his recall (he's a strong character and extremely clever, or do I stop all retrieving, help.  He so enjoys retrieving and its obviously great exercise, and useful to call him away from interesting things like people and dogs, etc. 

Any advice greatly received.

When my old lab went through a phase like this, I started changing my response - sometimes once she'd picked it up I'd scuttle backwards, which encouraged her to keep coming to me. Sometimes I'd turn and run away, which made her want to follow. Sometimes I'd send her away again after she'd picked up, without her giving it to me. It all kept her wondering what was happening next and she became much more responsive again.

Thanks I've been trying lots of different things running, hiding and throwing something else, I'll just have to keep at it I think, with the things I've tried he just doesn't want to give it up and if theres more than one item he'll pick them all up.  I pretend not to want it then he'll walk beside me looking at me brushing past me and as soon as move my hand he'll run off with it again.  I throw a ball on a rope for him and he'll just about put it in my hand then change his mind - I know its something I've done, but we'll get there - I won't be beat ;)

Thanks for your help I'll keep trying.

One thing that worked with my younger dog. I sat on the sofa and threw her favourite small ball - gently along the floor. If she picked it up and didn't bring it to me, I ignored her - just waited for her to bring it too me. It didn't take too long before she got the message - if she brought it to me, then I would throw(roll) it again - otherwise nothing happened :) Now she does perfect presents with her ball every time :)

Daisy

Hey your streets ahead. Mine has ants in her pants and if I so much as look at where Ive thrown the dummy she is off like a shot.

Seriously My other dog would not bring it back, my solution to let him know that I have another dummy. With him it took 2 hours of me throwing dummy 1 him picking it up and when he came close I threw dummy 2, which of course was much more interesting, so he drops dummy 1 and repeats with dummy 2. each time waiting until he is a bit closer until throwing the second dummy. I know that this is a bit unconventional but it worked for me ;)

Thanks Bluebell you've made me feel good!!  I must admit its taken a long time to get a good stay as he loves to retrieve and is very keen and I must admit he sits in huge anticipation jerking but not moving until I say "Go On" and then its like a trail of smoke behind him.  Water is just the same he just launches himself off about 2ft in the air!!! Mad dog!! :)

So with the method you mention did he eventually bring back closer and closer until handing it to you?

Thanks

Yep but it could just be that he was exhausted :):):) For the dog the excitement is in the 'chase' so he effectively rewards himself by coming close enough to have the other one thrown. You will have to go back to soing some steadying afterwards though. You should include some where you go to get it instead of him as well.

My bitch will paddle but wont go in the water, so it looks like Ill have to show her how (think Ill wait till its a bit warmer though!)

Have fun Bluebell

That one can work Bluebell but you need to be very careful. You are actually introducing one of the cardinal sins of gundog work, "Swapping". This is where a dog goes out, picks up the retrieve but on the way back sees or scents another retrieve so drops the first and picks up the second. This can be the very devil on a shoot because us pickers up have carefully marked down the positions of the birds shot only to find that they have moved! We actually train against this by throwing another dummy whilst the dog is returning with the first dummy. This is something I don't attempt though until the dog has a bomb proof retrieve because I would use a cross voice if the dog so much as thought about swapping and with anything less than a bomb proof retrieve I might worry my dog into dropping the first dummy. Obviously this is the last thing I want to happen!

Regards, John
 

I hear what you are saying John, but by that point I was getting desperate and he was never going to make a great gun dog (my first dog from show stock and a chockie). What we do is mainly work in the beating line, so again not that big a deal to have him retrieving nicely. It also seemed to take the 'edge' off the novelty of retrieving and allowed us to get passed the point where dummies were too exciting to allow any concentration. 

Don't worry Bluebell, I'm not knocking you. Sometimes we need to go wrong just to start to get on the right footing. Just as I allow running in at the start of training a retrieve to get the keeness there. :)

Regards, John

Keenness is not something we have a lack of! :)

John, please come up to my house in scotland and work with my Murphy!!
I reckon you could train my cats too!

Best wishes

ps got our first gong and cube thingy. Really funny watching the dog! What else can you put in them as i wouldnt want him to get fat?

In all forms of training, and this includes gundog work, one of the prime requisites is to reduce the possibility of the dog getting it wrong. The usual errors on delivery are, circling the handler, or just clearing off into the middle distance.

Dealing with these one at a time, the correction for the dog who circles just out of reach of the handler is to stand with your back against a hedge or wall. This way you are preventing him getting behind you. I would continue working with my back to a wall for some time until the idea is gone from his mind.

For the dog who just clears off I have a footpath between two factories on an industrial estate. (Not the kind of place you would normally associate with gundog work I know!) By training along there my puppy only has two directions to go and with the aid of a friend standing further along the path I can cut that right back to one direction!

If the dog does not return straight too me in either situation I crouch down and study the patch of ground at me feet. I NEVER look at the dog until he arrives! That bit's important! That patch of ground must appear FAR more interesting than he is!

In your walks, look out for interesting training areas. Think what your aims are then find the ground to suit the training of the day. For my class last Sunday I had a lovely corridor between two Laurel hedges. Ideal for training straight lines. Straight out and back!

Regards, John

We must have been typing at the same time John I hoped you'd come and put you two penny in!!  Thanks I note that your saying and the others and will try the different methods and see which gets the best response and then stick with it and see if we can break the habit.  The running away with it is obviously something he now learnt is great fun. 

Trying to find the type training ground you suggest - ave to get my thinking cap on for that. 

Thanks All from Me & Monster :)

I could be starting all over again in the not to distant future. The dog I always wanted to use on my Anna has mated a bitch today. I'm going to see the bitch tomorrow before she goes home to see what I think of her. So. . . . . . . . . . . . You never know! :)

Regards, John

Fingers crossed, John :)

Daisy

Of course, the breeder may not want me to have one of her puppy's. I have everything crossed! It's been four years since I lost Lucy so a puppy has been a long time coming :)

Best wishes, John

Well if she's that picky she's not going to get many owners for her pups :D Now if it was me wanting one - I could understand it :D

Daisy

Fingers crossed John!

I was going to suggest the alley exercise.  My young springer would run around me when I had just started retrieving.  After three days of only doing retrieving in an alleyway, I don't have any problems with her bringing it, or game, back to me.  Something which I also learnt - the hard way - from Edward Martin was don't snatch when they come in.  Get them to hold it before taking it off them.  I was always in a rush to get the dummy from my springer, before she dropped it and it was only after going to one of Edward Martin's training classes, that she stopped spitting it out at my feet.

Helen

Mel,

This kind of possesive retrieving is a symptom of his basic obedience still requiring work. A tell-tale is that you need a retrieve as a distraction to call the dog away from other dogs / people etc.

Tightening up on the basics (recalls with distractions, off-lead heelwork, steadiness etc) should go a long way to sorting this issue out.

Clicker Training may help with this.  I don't often use it but it has been invaluable for teaching mine to pick up difficult objects that she didn't like.

If you have done some clicker work you can go straight in with the following, otherwise you will have to teach what the clicker means first.

Firstly, click as soon as it is picked up. (he will drop it to come back for the treat)

Then gradually build up the distance with him coming back. Don't rush it as this is the most important part.

When it gets to giving it to your hand, he would have got the idea by now so (preferably sitting on a chair to start with) just leave your hand out and as soon as he touches your hand with it, click and treat.

Build this up a bit more until he places it in your hand.

You should find he will work it out for himself what you want, don't rush him, let him work it out, don't give any commands, the responsiblity of his actions are down to him.

As I say I use a clicker very rarely, but it worked a treat for this particular problem.

If you have never used clicker and want to have a go pm me and I can give you an idea of how to start him off.

Good Luck

My dogs litter brother is going through the same phase at the moment and he's nearly 2.  Such a shame as they'd been dong really well in the field too!  Hopefully now the seasons over they can get it sorted.   My boys just barmy and still hasn't grown up yet, he may grow up when he's about 12 years old hopefully :d

Lots to think about but such a couple of things I want to mention.

Although previously in posts I've mentioned that I was gundog training I am actually now just plodding along enjoying general training, I'm such a novice and was just finding it stressful not getting to grips with things.  No Hope they probably thought at the club anyway!

I hope all works out for u John and you get your new pup :)

My aim now is to find somewhere such as a alleyway or closed in path and only do retrieving there until he gets it.  Last night at home tried just rolling the ball and then taking no notice of him, he'd bring it back to me put it on my lap, but he kept mouthing it, as soon as I moved my hand he took it and played on his own with it, (should I have gone and got it from him?, then he brought it back in again and put it on my lap, left it a while and when I went to hold/touch again, he just went off with it.  So perhaps if I get him to hold other things and teach the hold command it might help?

I take note Havoc and will get down to more of the basics again, reinforcing yeah is that what you mean?  For instance - met a dog this morning, called him to follow - ignored me, went to get him and he did the run around.  I could have screamed.  Two fingers up.

I know he;s only 18 months old, and I had been feel lucky that as a whole he's a great dog, maybe he realises am a laid back softy, too easy going sometimes and he's taking advantage of this, but I had thought silly me that he was responding well and we were getting a happy medium of whats required. Boo Hoo  back to basics ere we go!

Mel, never give up :) John has encouraged me all the way through my training of Bailey. I must admit Bailey is an exceptional dog and was doing blind retrieves at just 29 weeks.  Then true to form, he went off the rails, Big Time.  Every command was blindly disregarded and p**s taking became the norm. On a retrieve he would pick up and immediately go into 'playbow'. Back to basics we went, and he came through with flying colours.

Kay

Thanks Kayc  of the kind words, it is so easy to start to feel useless, then all of a sudden he'll do something so perfect :)  How old is your Bailey now?  I know all dogs are different and the teenage period varies so much, to be honest shhhhhhh, I had thought we were lucky and not having too hard a time, but famous last words.  I also going to stop with the tennis ball on rope and try something else, this morning at work I was throwing his rubber bone thingey and he was not at all possessive and was bringing it back, so going to try it with this tonight and see what he does, it will be interesting to see if its only with the tennis ball, if so it's me that made him possessive as I only let him have tennis ball when we are out rest of time its in my pocket! Thanks again for your kind words.