Hi
I do not post much but I wondered if anyone could offer advice,  my youngest German shepherd is now 22 months he is very people friendly and usually dog friendy but twice in the past 4 months he has started playing with different dogs and it has ended in tears.

The first time I took him to the park and he was happily playing with his ball and another doggie friend when another dog a retreiver came over and stole the ball, I must admit I did not make anything of this as he usually lets any dog have his toys but he and the other dog a little yorkie gave chase to get the ball back when the retreiver dropped it and turned round.  Next thing the retreiver is up on its hind legs growling and Prince has joined in  as has the yorkie, it ended up with the retreiver on its back with Prince on top and the yorkie by the side barking.  Once seperated they were all waggy tails and happy with no injuries.  I put this down to needing better recall training and a lesson for him not to have toys near other dogs.

This afternoon at another park I was playing fetch with him then running off to hide behind trees we were doing this for around half an hour and had got to the far side of the park when after reaching his ball he turned to come back to me and then saw another dog spaniel at the other side of the park. I called him as I could see what he wanted to do and ran in the other direction he started to follow then turned and went to see the other dog I ran after him,  by the time I got to them he and the spaniel were chasing one another around the park making growling noises.  the other dog owner was tryiong to get the spaniel back but had as much luck as I did I think Prince knew he was in trouble because as soon as I was within closing distance of the other owner he stpped chasing the spaniel and ran off to get his ball from where he dropped it.  The spaniel came back to its owner wagging its tail and seemed fine but the owner said Prince was aggressive should be muzzled and be done under the dangerous dogs act.
I do not know if this is true because from what i saw running towards them Prince did start to run towards the  other dog but stopped a distance from it then they started chasing one another.  I am so afraid that he is bacoming aggressive and voilent and some thing might have to be done to him but i dont know what to do, he went to training classes from 12 weeks until 14 months and was fine there with other dogs altohugh he did always want to follow them too closely as it was lead based exercises, we had a behaviourist in because he used to like going out in to the main road and his recall needed lots of work ,  but now in one single episode he seemed to have lost it all.
i do know german shepherds have a way of play fighting which looks like aggression  when i was little my Dad had two and soon as you let them outside they used to be jumping all over one another biting and running and hitting one another with their paws and Prince does a gentler form of this with my elder german shepherd who can only walk slowly. But i am worried that this is going to get mistaken when he is out one day for serious fighting and i would like some advice to combat this please.
I am in tears writing this I do not want anything to happen to him but i dont know how to combat this except for taking all his toys away and walking him only on his lead.
Apart from these incidents he is very loving and comes to work with me and licks everyone he meets and loves children if some one comes into the office and say isnt he nice he gets out of his armchair and runs over to them with a toy to throw.
Jane

Without seeing what happened, it sounds as if you have a normal dog. As he seems to be fairly possessive about his toys (again, perfectly normal) it would be sensible not to use those where there's a chance that other dogs might want to join in (my old labrador thought all balls were for her to retrieve!). There's no reason to expect all dogs to be best mates with all others; just as there are some people we like and some we don't - and we often have quarrels with people we like! Dogs are no different.

It's horrible when dogs have a spat, but it is normal and to be expected occasionally, and it sounds as though it's been noise and posturing, not serious fighting. You were no more at fault than the owner of the spaniel, so try not to worry.

Thankyou Jeangenie.
I must admit something the breeder said when I got him has been playing on my mind possibly magnifying it out of all proportion.
The breeder we got him from is near Brighton and quite a well respected one and when on the occasions we went to visit and saw the pups with Mum which were in a kennel complex and then the dad after. The dad was her in house dog and I questioned her about something and she said that he did not like other dogs in his house unless they were puppies or bitches. I think in my mind I have blown this comment out of all proportion and am looking for a fault. I must admit he is a very affectionate dog and will let anyone do anything to him.  I did wonder though if anyone knew anything about the Ardenburg lines? I have got gsd books where there mentioned but I wondered if anyone had first hand knowledge.

He sounds like a lovely dog to me, and as for his dad I dont think there would be many intact males that would let another intact male dog into their own home without a grumble, so I wouldnt worry about that either.

I know many dogs (and bitches) who aren't happy about other dogs in their house, so I wouldn't worry about that. Off their territory they're fine, but their home is their castle!
:)

He does sound pretty normal to me too, although my only personal experience of GSDs is my 7 month old GSD x. However, you (and I and all big dog breed owners) need to be that bit more careful about our dogs playing with others. I've lost track of how many times my other dog has been bitten by little terrier types and it's always laughed off by the owner. It's gotten to the point that he won't go anywhere near anything smaller than him (he's a shar pei, so not huge). However, god forbid he growl at any of these things biting him when he was totally minding his own business. He's obviously an agressive dog etc etc

I was out last week when 2 such terriers came around the corner of the woods. I remembered them as biting Dylan a while back so I called my GSD pup close to me to keep her out of harms way while Dylan skirted round them as far away as possible. He called out to me 'Is your dog friendly?' (pointing to Trin) and I thought he was just being nice so I called out in a happy voice 'yeah, she's just a puppy'. To which he replied to me 'I don't care if she's a puppy, dogs like that shouldn't be allowed off lead. They're agressive and cause a nuisance.' I was absolutely gobsmacked! My dog was under full control off her lead walking to heel, while his two rat bags were choking themselves trying to get to my pup no doubt to bite her as they did Dylan. :rolleyes:

Anyway, the moral of the story is that the big dog will always be blamed, even though (in my personal experience) it's the little ones that often start it. And playfighting in similar sized dogs often looks a lot worse than it really is. I've had complete strangers ask me whether it's really safe to keep my two together when they see them 'killing each other'. Of course no harm is ever done, but if they played like that with strange dogs (which luckily they don't!) I'd no doubt be reprimanded for having aggressive dogs!!

All I can say is work even more on his recall, and then allow him to play if the other owner is happy. But make sure you're able to recall him in  mid-play in case it gets too much for the other owner to bear!! Good Luck

:-)

was your dogs tail wagging if so they were playing lots of growling in play my dogs do it with their tails wagging

Yes al tails were waggy before during and after.

Jane :)

dont worry sounds like you have a dog with a great personality.

some gsds seem to play really rough,i met a young GSD bitch out this morning,who i know is really nervey, she & mine had abit of a "tense" meeting,she seemed to want to be friendly but didnt have the social skills to be ? :(
& when flynn & tara tryed to be friendly playful to her she freaked out,abit of growling/hackles up so my two just left her to it!
then she bounds up to my nellie,who likes to stay with me  & whallops her over the head & shoulders with a front leg & knocks nell flying (she has pins in a hind leg & loses her balance easily),luckily nell got up & ran straight to me.

shes owned by a couple of elderly sisters who have a older GSD also. the older one is totally fine,but seems quite keen to join in as soon as there is any conflict/grumbles. they used to have a two year old male that attacked my flynn when flynn was just 14weeks old, & then spent a year terrorising the loacal walk before he was put down.

my dogs are all used to GSDs as i used to train with a bunch,but they do play rough dont they & if a dog isnt used to this playing it can cause problems.

I've two GSD bitches and although they are well trained they play hard and fast with each other but not to the extent that they hurt each other or break skin.  The older one drags the younger one by the ruff at her neck which she doesn't seem to mind.  They play together in a way that they wouldn't play with anyone else.  There is one staffie that my older dog plays with very noisily and it looks very rough but its only really posturing.  I tend not to walk in parks as the majority of the dogs there are small breeds and I found that the owners would take on look at my dogs - always on the lead in a park with children - and either pass uneducated comments or allow their dogs to jump at mine.  I take my youngest child through woods in a three wheeler pram and the only dogs I've ever had a problem with have been small dogs who have actually jumped into the pram and sat on top of my daughter.  I find this unacceptable but the dog owners seem to think this is cute?  If the shoe was on the other foot and my dogs did this there would be all hell to pay - I'd be furious with them first!!  I find that many people look at the dogs and have preconceived ideas about their nature.  A woman out walking on the moors shouted at me to hold my dog when she went past because her Lab was scared of Shepherds and she always found them aggressive - I know of a Lab who has bitten my husband and snapped  in my son's face so no breed is 'safer' than another.  There is poor breeding in all breeds and I'm sure we're all aware of this but some people must remember that just because their dog is small and cute it still has teeth and maybe even an inclination to use them!  What a rant that was.  I actually quite like small dogs just not small minded owners!

janestan, Ardenburg are very well known for breeding shepherds with sound temprements.I myself have a dog which I brought from there and I pacifically went to them as I knew of their reputation.I had to wait a while to get the pup that I wanted but it was definatly worth the wait! What are the names of Prince's sire and dam?

Hi

      / Zasko Vom Lerchenwald/Elvo Vom Farbenspiel 
Prince                       \Meckie Von Der Hechtenbach      
      \ Ardenburg Pola / Laios Van Noort
                       \ Quaxie Vom Haus Gero  

In my heart I know hes fine but sometimes People can intimidate you and make you think up is down. :)

Hi Jane
Have PM'd you :0)