Ok as some of you know i WAS going to get a leonberger puppy found a breeder went on her list, waiting for the birth, but now i am told i am too young and unexperienced to own such a dog, ok. Apprently any other leo breeder would also turn me down, right!

Im not letting it get too me , ive had such a rough time recently regarding puppies, or not as the case may be!

Im now going to pursue my love of agility and am looking for a collie puppy, maybe ill get some luck here! with any luck.

Hmmm so why did the breeder put you on their list in the first place?  Fair ennough that she might think you are too young and inexperianced, but she should never have put you on the list in the first place.   Sounds fishy to me.

How old are you if you don't mind me asking?  Maybe you could talk to someone in the breed club?  Ask them their veiws?

Exactly, but im not going to get all heated about it! Im 18, ok not old but i have been with dogs all my life and work at a kennels where i am a supervisor i know my dogs! ;)

Sounds to me like you'd be a better person then some adults.  To be a kennel superviser I'm asuming that you know how to read dogs etc?  Hmmm I think you should still try and talk to other leo breeders, if they think same then fine, you wouldn't be welcome in the breed.  But if not then you may find someone elses list to go on.  Surley it's worth a try!

As someone who is very particular about who gets there dogs I would hardly say 18 was terribly young.  I was bought my first dog a Yorkie when I was 12 and no one could have loved or cared for him more than I did.  As ice_queen said it is stange she put you on her list in the first place.  If I was you I would try another breeder.

I have 2 collies, the first I bought (well, dad was with me, but breeder knew it would be mine and was signed on the KC form in my name) when I was 10, the 2nd was my sisters (when she was 11) and her breeder was fine with that also. But sis got fed up of her so she's mine now! Am hoping to get a sheltie within the next year, I was on the waiting list for a Pyrenean Sheepdog (who let me wait a year then said I would only be able to have it on breeding terms!) for a year, and am on several sheltie waiting lists and no one has a problem with my age (I am 16). Sounds like your leo's breeder is a bit dodgy!

My 2 collies both compete in agility, its great fun, very addictive :D let me know what pup you decide to get!

Char

I'm surprised with your job and your knowledge of dogs that she has said no.  I was just 21 when myself and 3 friends imported our SWD's, my friends who shall we say are a bit older than me didn't think I was a stupid kid or anything.  Actually through the years they've come to me for advice and vice versa.  I'm glad that they didn't feel the same with me when I was only 3 years older than you are now. 

I still have my SWD's 13 years later and not everyone in the original partnership does :d

hi gems
i know you are upset at the moment and i know how much you want a leo but if your totally honest this is not the reason this breeder has refused you a pup or the others that you have been on a list.
for you that don't know i put gems in contact with this breeder and i know why the breeder did put her on the list then sent her a mail explaining the change of heart.
i am a leo owner and do know gems from another forum but at the end of the day the breeder is only trying to do what she considers best for the pups.
i would have thought any breeder should put the pups first even if this is a dissappointment to some one.

Hi Gems, why not have a rescue? A young special mix could do agility. Not all rescues have issues, many just need shown the right way to go, and with your experience, even if yours did you'd rise to the challenge. You need a dog, the dog needs a home, what could be better?

I have considered it, its just i already have 2 dogs and i just feel like a puppy is the better option, espec my terrier he can be a bit weird with some dogs, im just thinking about him too.

Thanks michelle for all your help! :P

Marie, can I ask..Why should a breeder lie?  Why can't the breeder tell the truth of why she can't have a puppy?  But knowing this all the more, if I knew who this breeder was (which I don't and I'm not botherd about knowing) but if I did, I would think even less of them because they are lieing, yes they may have the pup's best interest at heart but there is know reason to lie, especially do someone who is young and intrested in the breed.

this breeder did not lie to gems.
she said gems could have a pup because she wanted a leo and she thought  she would make a great owner.but her age had nothing to do with the change of heart.
the breeder found out through other sources that gems was not the person she first thought she was and therefore felt she had not been totally honest with her from the start and for the sake of the puppy withdrew her offer.
i am being accussed of telling this breeder not to allow gems to have a leo from her ( on another forum) this is not the case the breeder makes her own choice who she allows to own her pups.
i have mails from the breeder that puts this situtation in a totally different light to what has been posted.
maybe gems should fill you in on the details. all i am is a person who knows both gems from another site  and the breeder because i own 2.all i did was put gems in contact with her to try and help her get a leo but things took a different turn out of my control.the breeder in question is aware of the threads that have been posted and its upto her if she replies to all this. if i was in her place with the new information i would have done the same thing.
there is alot of people that are interested in the breed but alot of people can not understand what you take on when you own a leo.

Marie, by know means am I saying you have anything to do with the breeders change of mind.  I see you are just the person who knows more.  All I had to go on was what Gems said she had been told.  Now your telling me she was not told this but there are other reasons that the breeder has withdrawn from and this is what was told?

I think now is the time I should back out.  It's not as simple, but I'm still confused as to why either Gems/breeder is lying?

i didn't mean you honest, another user/s.
all i know is what the breeder has told me and has found out after she has agreed to gems being an owner of 1 of her pups.i have tried to contact gems but she has not replied to me as of yet.
its not as black and white as it looks there is a couple of leo owners on here that i have met at show they can tell you what kind of person i am and what the leo owner needs to be.
there is always 2 sides to a story and im sure users can work out the grey area's if they tried.

I think I will not get any deeper involved in this.  It really does say all shades of grey going! 

I will admit I only have heard one side of the story from one person.  So I do not know exactly what is going on.  All I know is what Gems told me (Have noticed she hasn't posted on this thred since.

I think maybe this is best left, and should be purely between breeder and prospective owner.

yep i agree
put it this way its the last time i try and help any one out.

collies are THE best dogs ever gems,& very addictive,one is never enough!!!!!!
this might have been fate to get you into to collie & agility & a fantastic way of life! good luck!

OK, Right, lets put this baby to bed.  I am Becki the Breeder that Gems has slated in this whole sorry affair.  Firstly, I am not a devil with horn's I am a human being who made a mistake.  Gems not only lied to me about her age, her dog handling experience and her situation in life she has lied and duped all of you.  I did indeed offer this young lady a puppy after a 45 minute conversation on the phone and then a meeting of 1.30 hours at my home.  She seemed very honest.  It was only later, on discover of her website that I found she was advertising herself as a breeder of Labradors, Terriers and Leonbergers!!!!  Knowing she did not own even own a Leo I then questioned her honesty with regard to everything else she had told me.  With alarm bells ringing in my ears for the welfare of my puppy, I contacted Gems to see what she had to say regarding this and asked her to reassure me.  She then threw it back in my face saying I didn't trust her, I wonder why!!!  When I then asked for advice from other more experienced breeders they all advised with to say withdraw my offer. I did this in the most polite and gentle way I could as I now knew how old she really was and how upset she would be and to appologise and that she could not afterall have a puppy, as my confidence in her was now non-existant.  Marie who has supported me in this whole formun conversation is in no way responsible for my decision to withdrawn an offer of a puppy the fault lies at Gems feet entirely.  The lack of presence of this young lady in the forum recently just confirms that I was right to decide against her as she is far to immature to even consider the responsibilty of such a large breed dog.  My concern is first and foremost the welfare of any puppies and the name of Leonberger and where I place them to new homes.  I have no reason to lie, a good home with loving people is hard enough to come by as it is.  This has cost me a night in front of the TV with my long suffering husband who only gets to see me one night a week as it is.  Thank you Gems I shall contact you and your mother to put an end to this whole affair.  I hope that the above answer questions for the rest of you who have also been lied to.  And by the way A yorkshire terrier, whilst being a delightful and lovely dog and very suitable for a 12 year old, is not a Leo, they are a whole different kettle of fish, they are a 10 to 13 stone dog.  If I had known that Gems was only 18 I would not have even entertained talking to her about ownership.  She looks a whole lot more mature, but we all know that looks can be decieving.  Gems if  you are reading this, a piece of advice.  When you can no longer see out of the whole your in, stop digging.  Warmest Regards Becki.

Now That I can see it from your POV Becki, I can see why you did what you did, and understandably so.  If I was in the position of breeding (which will hopefully be in the future) then if I found anyone lying I'm sure I would do the same.

Unforatntly, and I think I speak for alot of people on this, we naturaly assumed that what Gems said was true, and took it without knowing more then one side of the story. And for that I personally apologise myself.

Gems, I cannot see why you lied, what their to lie about, unfortantly it won't get you anywhere.

I'm hoping this will teach me not to jump to conclusions...

I didnt lie about my age or experience becki, i told you my age and you knew when you offered me a pup, ive never said you were a bad breeder cos your not! your care about your pups thats great, i was just upset, im only human after all!

Best of wishes for the upcoming litter
Take care

Becki as a breeder i salute you . For a change it is sooooo nice to see a breeder put their pups welfare  etc ahead of the money. I do not breed but 4 of my dogs are used at stud and i  only allow my boys to  go to Bitches whose owners feel the same way as me, and i also help vet new owners, and yes we too have had people ask for a pup and after several times of talking to them we had to say sorry but we do not think the pup is suitable for you.But no doubt they will aquire one from somewhere but at least it is not one of our babies .No amount of money would ever sway me to place a pup in the wrong home.

Always good to hear both sides. I have to say that I am a lot older and still got very upset when trying to buy a pup to be exported. I knew both  the owner and the breeder of the bitch and made it clear that the pup would be going to a good working home as new breeding stock, even offered to have my friend un US fly over an meet with them, provide pictures etc. They said that was not an issue and they trusted my judgement. However once litter was 4 weeks and I had most of the paperwork etc underway and having recieved photos of the litter from day 1 they changed their minds and said that they would not allow export of any of their dogs. Not only cost me a load of time, but also money and heart ache. Next time I go on a waiting list I think I will ask for some form of contract to be drawn up, nothing fancy but just to protect both parties. Sorry but I am now very disallusioned.  I do understand that the breeder should do their best to find good homes for all of the pups but unfortunately not all are straightforward and reliable :(

Unfortunately, this type of thread is a good example of what can happen when only one side of the story is heard. Allegations are made and comments printed - all this without hearing the other side of the story. Think about it! - As a breeder, how seriously would you have to be concerned to withdraw an offer of a puppy. I know for us, it would have to be something pretty major. Let's try not to jump in with both feet before we know the full facts. Given the circumstances Becki describes, we would have done exactly the same thing!

Well i can only say sorry i guess, sorry that this has all blown out of proportion. I am only human i am bound to make mistakes, after all, its whats growing up is all about!! Im sad there has to be bad feelings between us becki, but i guess thats what it is. I apologise for posting on a online forum, its just people knew i was waiting for a leo pup, i was just informing them that i will now not be obtaining one. Not sure if ive got anything else to say, except i will put it down to experience and now know not too get too excited about a pup until i have one!
thanks, and sorry marie you had to get caught up in this.

Gems.  You have taken a very big step into the world of the mature adult.  I am proud of you for stepping up and being brave enough to say sorry on a public forum - I had my doubts but you did it.  You are right at the end of the day we are all just human and it is our nature to make mistakes as we learn.  I would hate to list the one's I am sure I have made in my lifetime, this has been a hard lesson for us both to learn.  Like you say lets put it all behind us and move on.  I wish you luck with a more suitable dog, I know you will one day own a Leo when you are ready, I waited 10 years, its been the longest in my life but I got there.  I hope that you achieve all that you wish to achieve.  With the enthusiasm you so obviously have you will undoubtely turn out to be a wonderful owner and agility is the best fun in the world, far less serious than showing.  I will not be frequenting this venue again as I am afraid its far too stressful.  But thank anyone who has said nice things about what  has been a hard decision for me and would request that no one hold anything against Gems for a mistake she so obviously regrets, she is still young and needs our support.  So Good bye to the forum and best wishes Gems lets try to be friends because I am far to old for enemies.  Becki

well done to gems for apologising & well done to becki for accepting it!!!!!!
its good when a thread like this can calm down without being locked!!!!

Yep - group hug everyone :D :D

*****hugs***** :D

Thanks for being so understanding becki :) Best of luck with the litter, you must be soo excited!