If £500 is the going rate am i paying too much at£250 for an unreged samoyed both parents are reg but the breeder is not registering the pups

I would ask why the breeder isn't registering the pups

I would imagine if both parents are genuinly kc regsetired, then the reason she wasnt registering the pups, would be that the dam was under a yr old or over 8 , or had already whelped 6 litters. Otherwise she would register them and sell them for the full price, to answer the original question, i think that half price is probably right for an unregistered pup ?

Agree with Mel her why on earht would the breede not be registering the pups??  It could be that the parents have breding restrictions(normally put on by their breeder to ensure that un health tested or unsuitable stock isn't used for breeding), or maybe the bitch is too young, too old, ahd too may litters.  Noenof these reasons would make them the sort of person I would get a pup from.

I would alwys go with a breeder who has a good reputaion among their peers and is a member of their breed club.  This generally will mean they have taken the time to study the breed and do things properly, and not be just breeding any dog to any bitch with no interest as to the quality of hetlh, type or temperament of the pups.

you must have typed at the same time as me Brainless, and you said it better too !!!

But yours hasn't my usual typos :D

I would never recommend that anyone buys a puppy from a litter that are "just pets"!  Every litter should be bred to the breed standard using the very best stud dog to compliment and improve the qualities of the bitch.
Walk away guest and buy a puppy from a carefully bred litter where the breeder is experienced and knowledgeable - you'll save money in the longrun! 

But even in the most carefully bred litter there are pups that are not up to Show pup standard ,the same as 2 Champions together are not forced to throw show quality Puppies.And without knowing full circumstances it should not be assumed the worst of the particular Breeder.Maybe the pups are not reg cos they are not good enough and the breeder has no wish to see them in the ring which they could well be if they are reg. The question i would be asking is are the parents Hip-Scored etc.Cos most good breeders will not breed from non- health checked dogs. Have you been to see the pups What is your veiw and how do you feel they are being reared etc.And £250 is an appropiate price i think for a Pet quality Puppy.Especially when i look at some of the sites and see Cross Breeds advertised at ridiculas prices.One such advert was for a cross and they wanted £1300 pounds per pup

All pups in alitter should be registered even if just for the statistics.  Pups are registered normally at around 2 weeks old, so it would be impossible to say that any were not going to be good enough in a breed where pups are all the same colour.  Even at the4 selling age you can only say a pup has promise or not, only when they are fuly mature can you tell for sure which way they will go.  In a litter from two Champions you would be unlucky to get pups that couldn't be shown.  whether they would ever attain the heights of their paents is another matter, but two poor ones are unlikely to bred good examples.

I think it most unlikely that the breeder has not registered them to avoid a non show standard puppy being shown - its difficult enough to find a show home for a promising pup, so it would be very unusual to be overwhelmed by prospective owners who want to show. I can think of no good reason not to register a litter. 

Walk away from this, take your time, plenty of time looking elsewhere. Why be in a hurry to acquire a puppy ? The more homework you do on the breed that you are interested in, the more people that you meet and talk to, the more questions you ask of the breeders and 'breeders' that you come into contact with the happier you will be with your eventual choice of pup. Best of luck.

I don't think people should jump to conclusions about this breeder. For one i do not register some of the puppies from my litters, this dosen't mean i am a bad breeder who shouldn't be trusted & you can always phone the KC with the parents KC numbers to ask if the parents are registered, no breeding bans & not over bred or bred too early or too late in their life.
I used a champion male on my bitch last year & only registered the pup i kept back for myself..........reasons why.......
1) i want the pups to go to pet homes only! To those who will love the dog for whatever it is, Not to someone who will nit pick everything about the dog & expect it to be a show winner because they paid full breed price for the pup.
2)it only costs £12 to register a puppy with the KC or after a year old £50, so if the owner came back to me when the dog is older & said they wished to show or breed from the dog, i'd evaluate its quality, make sure they do all health tests then register the pup for the fee of whatever the KC wants.
3) i think not registering all the litter ensures that people aren't just tempted to breed from their pet dog because it is KC registered or bred from 'so & so's lines' or to make their money back. Why do you think we have so many puppies being produced from dogs who don't meet the breed standard? Because breeders keep selling puppies with their KC papers to get the 'higher price' which means anyone can breed from that dog which they bought as a pet.

  I think registering is a must for Breed Records. I'd rather have a KC reg pup with endorsements restricting potential breeding.
Unregistered dogs make a mockery of the breed records, inevitably leads to more unregistered dogs in the breed. How can people rely on information when it isn't complete? (pedigree research/breeding lines/medical history etc)
The number of pet homes far outweighs the number of show homes. If you only want one kind of home/owner I'm sure proper vetting of prospective owners is better than not registering. As you say it is only £12.

I agree, I would NEVER buy an unregistered dog and wouldn't advise anyone else to. If the new owners want to breed they will, whether registered or not, and as their bitch is unreg. it won't be able to be health tested, and they will only find substandard dogs to use as a stud.

DLRC was started so that people could 'have a bit of paper' to go with their dog - and look what that's lead to. :(

Angienelly - that's exactly why most breeders use endorsements. Pet owners who have done a bit of research expect a KC Reg. puppy and just because a puppy is KC Reg doesn't mean you have to sell it to a show home. Personally, I can't think of a valid reason for not registering.

Angienelly - one of your breeds is Jack Russells, which cant be registered anyway, so how do you stop owners breeding from them? Not registering the puppies will not stop anyone from breeding if they've a mind to. Certainly no-one who I personally would consider a responsible breeder would charge extra for registration.

Fillis- I think you'll find my dogs are IKC/FCI registered JRT's! Not just any run of the mill mutt.
I am actually a very honest breeder & one who can be approached by people who have bought pups from me, they will ask if i think the dog or bitch is good enough to take a litter from, in some cases i say not the dog would be better neutered/speyed in others i would most certainly ask for a puppy from the litter myself if they ever did decide to go ahead & breed, non of my dogs have ever been bred from without me knowing as all in the past have been registered with the breed club anyway so the pups can be registered with the breed club, because my dogs are of a totally different type to the normal bench leg shorts people who are thinking of breeding come back to me for advice, the advice i give them sometimes puts them off breeding for life & a quick trip to the vets to have the dog/bitch done! You have to be truthful & tell them the pitfalls when breeding & many would hate to lose their beloved pet.
I also eye test & patella test all my JRT's....now tell me who goes to that much trouble & expense with a breed which is still unrecognised by the English KC?
My other breed is Miniature Schnauzers which i don't breed many of at all i've had 2 litters in 6 years & yes i won't register pups that go strictly as pets, you can endorse KC papers but its dosen't always work they can get round it as i have found out in the past.........however if the dogs are unregistered you get genuine people who want a dog as a pet not ones that just want one to breed to make X amount off because it is a KC registered dog.
And as to breeders who won't charge more because their pups are KC registered! Get real! I have phoned top breeders up & they will charge X amount for pups with KC papers & X amount for ones with no KC papers. A friend of mine wanted a chocolate Labrador & was asked £450 with his papers or £300 without! & this happens in most breeds.

Hi angienelly :)  I understand your interest and passion for JRTs.  Your health checks are commendable.  But why do you breed miniature Schnauzers?  Do you show them?

Hi Val,
        Yes i do show them, but my 2 boys are well past it now age 8 & coming on 7, i also have a girl in co-ownership with her breeder but she is also getting on in years, so we just had her 2nd litter from her & i have a bitch pup who will hopefully turn out.

Don't give up on the oldies!!  We had a bitch of 11+1/2 win the Veteran Class at Crufts with 20+ in the class and many 7 year olds!!  Good luck with your baby.

I did not say your dogs were "run of the mill" or mutts. Nor did I say you werent honest! I asked a simple question - how do you stop people breeding from unregistered dogs?
I also said that I would not personally consider that someone who charges more for a registered puppy is a reputable breeder. Perhaps you should READ what is said before going on the defensive. 

Regardless if soem breeders feel they withold registration for a reason, generally the advice stands I woudl not buy an unregidtered pup.

My breeder when endorsements were rarely used had a brother sister accidental mating.  She registered the litter, but sold the pups without their papers as she didn't think they shoudl be bred from.  She could have hidden the accident, and mated the bitch next season, but for breed records prefered not to.  If one of the pups had turned out really well she would probably have let the owners have the papers.

The vast majority of unregistered pups are that way because they can't be registered or to overbreed bitches, registering some litters and selling others unregistered.

Most show dogs are primarily pets.  When breeding we should all be trying to produce the very best that we can and though most will undoubtably end up in purely pet homes, anybody breeding "just pets" is doing a disservice to their chosen breed.
I would never recommend that anyone bought an unregistered puppy,  although I do know of one extremely reputable kennel who chose not to register puppies who do not fit the breed standard.

And dont lets forget that the "just pets" should have the best of temperements, and be healthy so these breedings should be researched every bit as thoroughly, which regretfully does not usually happen.

For the first time last year since I got involved with my breed I had an unregisted litter. This was done because of a fallout with the stud dog owner and no green form was signed. These pups went free to friends we have known for ages on a spay/neuter contract.
But even though these were not sold. they have to be recoreded for the tax man.
It has broken my heart not have these pups out in the ring,
Cheers
Terry