neurofen has quite a kick too

to Michelle

you say 'more and more that you have seen seem a bit dodgy'.
How many have you seen that are nice compared to dodgy.
Can you see where your posts are upsetting some, I dont think for a minute you're anti staff but the language of your posts are creating that impression.

i feel bad as i got very defensive. i dont mean to come across as some psycho staff owner. im just very protective of the breed

>>>do you think there may be legalisation on staffies in the future in the uk,if people like this druggie continue to own them?<<<<

Do you mean like BSL??? :(

I dont see why my breed and I should be punished for others failings :( :(

nor do i lel,its not fair ,but i think it COULD happen.

i was reading in one of the (dog world) doggy papers the other week how many are in rescue now.
they are cetainly really popular here now, & im quite sure some of those people arent responsible enough & therefore the situation COULD get worse,especially if they are being poor;ly bred or bred to scare police etc away

Battersea dogs home has more staffs and staff x'x than all other breeds put together. It's a crying shame that so many of them are poorly bred. I try and do my bit by helping out our local branch of rescue. I will eventually go on to fostering rescued Staffies in the future as I have been put off breeding dogs for life! (I always wanted to be a dog breeder but I am sooooooo not ready!)

You know what annoys me is that poor Staff may have to be destroyed., because a plonker of an owner.  The saying goes " NEVER A BAD DOG, JUST A BAD OWNER". I love Staffs, my friend breeds them and is a judge, lives in a huge posh house, certainly no yobbo!!
I live ( unfortunately ) near a town with a bad reputation for trouble and drugs, I'm afraid the fashion accessory there is a Staff or Rottie. In fact a huge dog fighting ring was busted there last year. Yes, it is true they are used as an image thing, but it is a breed that does not deserve the image it has now earned.
Regards  

p.s I am a Rottie owner, totally not yobbo, soft as putty, in fact our pooches get a lift in a new Range Rover everywhere they go!! Ya!!

i own astaffie and she is as soft as anything but there are afew staffy owners that have a staffy just to make them look big and its a shame as every one thinks all staffy owners are the same  which is a shame as 97% of staffy owners are responsable

id like to say nchappers has apolgised,which of course ive accepted!!!!
welcome to champdogs nchappers!!!!! what a entrance!!!!!! ;)

Nchappers
As a fellow Staff owner I know where you're coming from, you are right to be defensive, someone has to be for our breed. I was just trying to give Michelle the right to reply to some of the more misleading sounding posts that may have caused offence .Unfortunately because of our breeds reputation, we must educate non owners to stop the perpetuation of the myth that all Staffs are mad . Sometimes, as they say, a Staff's reputation unfairly precedes him/her. I know I had glances and comments in my workplace when I first got Giorgia then I stuck photos up of her on my desk and brought her in for a visit and everyone then fell in love with her.

if you asked me that this time last year id have said ive seen one dodgy one to about 15(?) lovely ones. but in this last year i dont think ive met one new one that isnt agressive to other dogs. i have continued to meet some of the nice ones who have remained lovely on the whole. apart from one -but whose owner is  responsible about him.
ive met /passed by at least 10 new ones that seem really agressive (to dogs NOT people),thankfully most have been on the lead

theres always littrers for sale in shop windows here asking £200/ £150 per pup

sorry if by trying to explain im making it sound worse :(

Oh litters in shop windows are never good news :(

Where do you live Michelle?

west somerset of all places!!! little country sea side town!
i would say i see at least 5 staffies in the town each day. non of which id trust.
(i do see others at other times that i DO trust!)

no not at all Michelle, now that we know the numbers that you have seen, it explains alot about your posts.  Most of us dont see another Staff from one month to the next but you have seen quite a number and because of that you have formed an opinion. 

coleystaff. it is really odd here,there has been a HUGE increase in the last two years.

my girls used to play with one on the beach for years, & he was the only one local for ages. but now they are more popular her than ESS/collies/jR/labs

god thats unbelievable, I wonder if there has been an increase ( I'm going to stereotype here) of the undesirable element in your area who are attracted to our breed. I suppose it happens and they say that seaside towns are suffering in this way .

basically,its a small town,45 mins away from two bigger towns with rubbish public transport, so if you dont drive you are fairly stuck here.
as it is a fairly small town you do tend to know who is abit "undesirable" , & they do seem to all have a staffy. apart from the one who has a dacshie.
they do tend to let them off the leads in town, i dont think ANY breed should be off the lead in town.its not a pedestrian town,it has a road going through it,

theres also a guy that has a lurcher & a lovely to die for tri collie,that runs up & down the pavements herding the cars up that i know is going to get squashed. i dont think he should have a dog either.

we have a dog warden that i havent seen for 5years,but she spends her time picking on little old ladies with their little old dogs in the park as they potter about

I Love staffys...they are the most wonderful dogs IF bred and raised properly.I live in an area where the number of staffs and staff crosses(usually passed off as pit x's etc) is huge,They are owned in many cases by young males...the type you really wouldn't want your daughter dating.....and are bred all to often to suppliment their incomes.
I ended up having my own male staff castrated due to the 'unhealthy' interest people had shown in him ....sad but people like the staff owner in the title of this post are EXACTLY the knid of person who will ,eventually, cause much greater problems for this wonderful breed
Archer

id like to ditto what archer has said!!!!-that was what i was trying to say! (apart from the owning bit! ;) )

I do think that all those who love the breed need to take a long hard look at the kind of image that they seem to go out of their way to project. Certainly at the shows Staffs are encouraged to show overt dog aggression towards others in the ring - we always dread being next to them because of the awful growling and snarling that goes on and which is encouraged by their owners. All this talk about the breed being 'game' is simply encouraging those who are looking for a dog to suit a 'hard' image. If judges penalised those dogs who were very dog aggressive then perhaps this type of temperament would NOT be bred for and your lovely breed would no longer be the first choice for all the druggies and other macho nutters out there. The Rottweiler folk have certainly turned their breed's temperament around - maybe those with the Staffys best interest at heart could do the same.

Yvonne

The sad thing is there some show owners who encourage their dogs to "spark"off each other at shows, we had the misfortune to have two such handlers in wet weather accommodation at East of Engand a couple of years back, They had their dogs outside the Cav ring & they were winding up thir dogs to have a go at each other across one corner, the dogs were growling & snarling at the end of their leads IN the cav ring, they were asked to stop by the cav ring steward & he was told to F off, the Cav Judge then told them to stop & got told to P off, It took the Chief Steward & Show Manager to remove them from the cav ring & the show,  sadly the damage than been done to the young dogs, & most of them were visibly affected. Glad to said I have not seen these two handlers again & last year my two youngsters were flirting with a very nice little white bitch at the same show

You are saying what I have said before Yvonne.

I show a Terrier breed and unfortunately at quite a number of Championship Shows we are either adjacent to, or at the best very close to the Staffy rings.  I hate it and it is one of the things that decides me as to whether or enter a particular show or not, particularly if I am showing a puppy.

It is not only in the ring but on the perimeters that the dogs are encourage to bait each other, by their owners.  It does give the wrong impression as them as a breed to an onlooker.

I know of a good many very nice even tempered Staffy's, but like Michelle I also see a lot of dogs that are a macho possession for their dubious owners.  I too would think twice about coming to close to a staffie offlead that I didn't know.

Sorry Staffie owners but that is how it is, I am very much a dog lover, but I'm afraid my own dogs safety has to be a priority.

yvonne, reading your comment, rottweiler folk have turned there temperment around, so stafford folk should, i have never heard of a stafford killing a child, not so many years ago rottweilers did, unfortunately before 1991 and the dangerous dogs act, rottweilers were the cult dog, the fashion dog, responsilble rottweilers breeders were around then and now, nobody can be held responsible for back street breeders. I myself show staffords along with many respectable folk ranging from old age pensioners to barristers, we do not teach our dogs to bait each other, yes they can be noisy and show aggression to each other, unfortunately that is there make up. ( if you put a herd of sheep in a field, most collies would want to herd them) that is there makeup. I think most stafford folk that show, would be offended  that we are all tarred with the same brush, and my favourite show is WKC, when we are usually put out of the way, so we dont have to put up with half whispered comments from the next ring...
sharon

I live in Bristol, and I would say that almost half the dogs that I see on the street are Staffs, albeit some are not what I would call good examples.

We get a disproportianate number at the training class I help with (which is a good thing)  Sadly the ones that have come from the dogs home, or the crosses that have come from there are often very dog aggressive, even from quite a young age.

Sadly there is a young couple who think they ahve an american bulldog, adn proudly stated that Mum was an AB and dad a pedigree staff,a dn the poor pup looks like a thickset staff with a docked tail.  He was a handful right from the start,a dn when he got to six months they got a bitch staff (also docked, as they thought that was how they were supposed to be).  They continued classes for a wwhile, but the male got more and more aggro with other dogs, adn they were finding it very hard work wity the two, and tyey just dropped out.

There are 3 didstinclt tuypes of staff owner around here:

a) The obviously knowledgeable, firm but fair owner who has a well behaved dog on the end of a lead, who listens intently when the owner distracts him from passing dogs, and has only eyes for Mum Dad.

b) The struggling family who have a jolly hooligan on the end of the lead and seem clueless as to what their darling is up to, which is often bullying other dogs into playing and sqaring up to them.  These are the ones that are totally shocked when their 'playful' dog piles into a dog that told it to get lost.  All that is needed is for the pup to learn appropriate interdog behaviour.

c) The hard man/yob with a dog being encouraged to snarl and bark at you when you walk past, and invariabley sporting a studded collar several sizes to large, which in it's excitement the dog slips, and comes roating up t you and your dogs, across a busy road.  Thankfully my bitches handle the posturing with no more than an annoyed woof if sniffed inapropriately, and I end up trying to detain the dog until it's owner gets it.  Some of these also think ti clever to walk their dog along the st4reet without a lead.

The latter two types can be very volatile if you have a nervous dog, or one not forgiving of having it's space invaded.

Every time I meet category b) with a puppy I tell them how important to socialise their pups with other dogs, so that they learn to be less full on, and thereby get less negative reactions from other dogs to object to, as I have found they are not for backing down if challenged. 

There will always be some that are dog unsocial as in any breed, especially male to male (also common in many dogs), but the majority with sensible ahndling, as the owners in the first category are, are a pleasure.  A well trained staff also seems particulary devoted and responsive to it's owner.

>>>>There will always be some that are dog unsocial as in any breed, especially male to male (also common in many dogs), but the majority with sensible ahndling, as the owners in the first category are, are a pleasure. 

A well trained staff also seems particulary devoted and responsive to it's owner. <<<

as a staffy owner i would like to say *thankyou* Brainless :)

and me too. thanks. The sad thing is a Staff puppy from a good line does not need much training. I'm a Staff novice but a well prepared novice and we have had no problems with ours at all and yes she is devoted but and so are we

i remeber a couple of years ago watching a little staffie bitch at a obedience show. it was recall first & she ran around the ring having the time of her life,running lterally rings around the steward handler & judge. it was so funny they were all in hysterics. but next it was heelwork & wow it blew me away,i was expecting her to be quite naughty because of her recall but she wasnt, head up looking at her mum,mouth in a huge staffie grin,fabalous attention style & to die for attitude. what a star!!!! she made me cry she was so good!
she impressed the judge too,because although she wasnt placed (because of the recall) but in the write up she was the dog that the judge wanted to take home!!!!
& that was a out & out collie person!

BTW that staff is reserve for the western obedience team this year & will be working in the main ring at crufts at lunch time on thurs. she is fab,so if you are there go & see her.

(as you can tell,this is one of the ones im not scared of & shes brill with other dogs too-even collies)

recall is the only problem i have with my staff. i do not show him or anything like that but we go to obedience classes, he is brilliant at everthing else. he gets so much enjoyment out of the classes and gets excited about an hour before we go because he knows where he is going.

the ones that compete seem to really work well for food rewards, & two ladies do it all by clicker,which theirs have really responded well to.

I have a nice story about a dog aggressive Staffie :)  We were in Ladbrokes with Cadmus, who was on lead, and a loose Staffie ran up and started growling aggressively at him.  OH roared (and he has an impressive roar!) "get your dog back on lead".  A bloke then ran up, grabbed the staffie, said "sorry mate" and fled the bookies.  Five minutes later he was back; he had run to the pet shop nearby to get Cadmus a Pig's Ear by way of apology :D  He then apologised profusely, saying he hadn't noticed another dog coming in or he would have had his back on lead and that he was ever so sorry and no hard feelings?.  Yes, I know he should just have had it on lead anyway, but the poor bloke was completely mortified by the incident and his lovely gesture of the Pig's Ear made Cad's day :)

Lesley

thanks for that. Nice owner but should have been more responsible.He was obviously in quite a well built-up area and the Staff should have been on the lead permanently. They arnt very good with traffic and are a danger to themselves as much as anythingelse. Ours is on the lead if we go into town.
Last night we were walking through a small village nearby and a bus stopped and some people got off that were mentally handicapped. They immediately started to play and fuss Giorgia. Considering there were about six girls in the party and they were all over her and it was dark,it  might have been too much for her and that she might have got stressed but she just stood there patiently and let them love her until they had had enough.Then she tugged at the lead to say 'time to go now'!

Well after reading this post I thought Oh My God which one am I!
I knew I wasn't number 3 because I'm female :p
So I set myself a mission to find out and I'm proud to announce that no matter whats going on in the surrounding area...one word and I have both of their attention immediately!
We even passed a fire engine and it's crew yesterday after a car accident (nothing serious but I think it overheated and smoked a lot) and as we walked passed the dogs kept their attention directly on me!

My little tessie is the most affectionate , sweet natured staffie! and absolutely gorgeous , if i do say so myself!!! She loves to play chase ball with the kids , and is so playfull and cheeky! In the park , I do let her of the lead , as she loves to play with other dogs (although doesnt seem to like alsations) She is very protective though , and doesnt seem to like other people coming into the house , and although she will play with other dogs , she doesnt like me giving other dogs attention ....hey im your dog , not him!!!!  It has taken alot of hard work and training , and it does annoy me when people get a staffie (or any other dog for that matter) and just cant be bothered to train it or put in the effort. Staffies are wonderfull dogs , and make a wonderfull addition to the family

im not a drugy and i have three staffys, my friend loves mine to bits also but a druggy set his staffy on her springer spaniel for fun, but she doesnt slag the breed off just the owners

i have three staffs and they are very loving and would not attack anyone, i never let them off the lead though, i could i choose not to, it is not the breed it is the owner who was in the wrong here they give this wonderful loving breed a bad name, the owner should be put to sleep!!!

I don't really know what all the fuss is about staffs :)

Last week I went to a training class that i will be taking my new puppy to.  There was a Staff X there, with a muzzle on, and my first thought was 'uh oh'.  The trainer just took the muzzle off and started doing his bit with the staffie, and I swear I've never seen a dog learn so quick.  She learned in about 5 minutes what the trainer wanted and was really friendly....

Today I saw a couple of guys on the corner of my street who seemed to fit into the third category, with 2 dogs on leads, one looking suspiciously like a staff.  I decided not to stereotype so went and said hello (figured I'd need to know what their dogs were like in case I bump into them with the new puppy).  The mum was a crossbreed, and bred by accident with a local Staffie.  Her daughter was the other bitch, beautiful and a bit shy but not at all aggressive.  Although it's sad that the two guys had an unplanned litter of dogs, they seemed to know how to look after theirs, they were both on leads and looked healthy and happy...

I've never met an aggressive Staffie, so I will keep my open mind and agree with ilovemygirls that in most cases, its the owner, not the dog :)

I have to say i feel the same as alot of you do . I dont trust staffies with my dog , she has been attacked by one and another tried to have a go too . Ive seen others have a go at other dogs , these owners werent druggy types :P but i think there are quite a few bad temp ones about . I dont blame anyone crossing the road , I dont think people would just cross because of the look , I dont its just the attitude of some that puts me off , I couldent care less if im on my own but with my dog I def would cross , better safe then sorry .
having said that a friend of my sis has a lovely little one . But most of the ones ive come across arent too friendly . sorry for those who love and own the breed hopefuly your making sure that yours arent like the ones alot of people try to avoid , I hope staffys are turned like rotties have been if these dogs can have even temps then I would be alot nicer to see them about . im not bashing the breed its how ive found alot to be like

There is no reason to be scared of Staffies, they are fantastic with people, but not so great with other dogs. I have 2 dogs and one of which is a Staffie. When we are in the park I let him off the lead as I know that he will just ignore other dogs and just sit at peoples feet. If I see someone with a ball, then I put him on the lead as he will go for another dog just to get that ball. Luckily he doesn't leave my side so I can grab his collar.

When my boyfriend moved in with him, he did go for my dog (collie x GSD) because of food and I got bitten by him trying to break up the fight, but it was not intentional on his part. Since then, with a bit of training, eating time is now fine, but I agree that some of the time, there is a risk he could snap but 99% of the time, he is just a loving dog that demands gentle attention.

There may be some that have not had the right training of loving at home and go for other dogs - this happened to me this morning. Another staff attacked my staff for no reason. Sam was just walking past hime, minding his own business and was attacked. both myself and the owner managed to grab their collars without anyone getting hurt and he was so apologetic. I wouldn't mind, but we see this dog nearly every morning in the park and no problem as Sam usually does his own thing.

I suppose that when you go to the same place daily, the dogs and owners get to know each other so no one is afraid of him.

Its not the dogs that should be banned, its should be the people that are not treating them the way they should be treated and some of the breeders. I know that there are some really good breeders out there, but there are also some really bad ones.

Ive been having a good think on this one this morning I was rethinking what those of you with staffs said ,and alot of people on another forum too came up with the same , alot said my staff isent good with dogs so I keep him or her on a lead , thats great your being responsible ,I know that staffs are quite common but so is the lab I dont belive that all the owners of the staffs who dont like other dogs are badly trained  if that was true those of you who posted that your dogs are bad with other dogs would come in that catagory, or is this breed much harder to train? Why dont they like other dogs , its just somthing I was thinking when i got up :) mabe someone who knows this breed well  , can tell me . 

Not sure on that one!  Like I said , mine is ok with other dogs , but would rather play ball with me in the park than run round with the other dogs. She will tell them she doesnt want to play with a bit of a gruff! but she has never attacked or been aggressive. They are just people dogs I suppose , and much prefer the company of humans to that of other dogs. I get annoyed when people try and avoid staffies orcross the road , as Tess will lick an other person to death , not attack them!!!

I think most people on this board who avoid staffs do so not for themselves but worry for their dogs as some staffs are or are encouraged to be not good with other dogs.  I avoid them until I am sure they are OK with dogs.