Hi all,
Just wanted to tell you guys that this is a WONDERFUL informative group. I unknowingly adopted a 6 year old pregnant doberman pinscher from a breeder.  When I drove back home from the breeders house it took 2 hours and the dog kept on standing up and falling down in the back seat, is this enough trauma to make her have an abortion because 2 days later she had light brown discharge from her vulva and it continously decreased over 2 weeks.  I took her to the vet the day I noticed the discharge who said might just be comming out of estrus.  Now if you take her out and play with her afterwards a drop of clear/cloudy discharge comes out.  I am not sure if she is really pregnant or not but when I called the breeder she said she saw a tie with her other dobie.  Her teats has dropped and 4 of the back has filled (2 weeks ago when I squeaz her teats yellowish/milky fluid were expressed is this normal?).  Her abdomen looks a little bigger than it did.  I asked the breeder though when she thinks she saw the two tie and she said "maybe 2 weeks before I adopted her".  This would mean she is six weeks.  Could she possibly have an abortion or do you think she is pregnant or having a false pregnancy?  Also in false pregnancy/abortion do dogs have clear discharge and milk production as well?  I look forward to hearing from the group.
Thanks in advance,
Destiny

It is possible for the bitch to lose her babies, one of my girls litter died at 5 weeks and she aborted at 7 weeks.  Get her to the vet, they should be able to put your mind at ease.

As SharonM said, get her to the vets - although a phantom can produce all these signs you need to know whether she is in whelp, (if only to enable you to be prepared) and that there is nothing wrong either way.

What a terrible attitude from the breeder! 

Your first priority is to find out for sure the condition of the bitch, poor thing.  Thank goodness she now has a loving home.  Then, if she is pregnant you will need to read up a lot on pregnancy and whelping.  You will need to make sure you have all the paperwork as well, because with such an uncaring and casual attitude from the breeder, I can foresee trouble when you try and register/sell the pups.

Still, one step at a time.  Come back on the forum and let us know what the vet says.  You will get a lot of help here through the pregnancy (if it is confirmed).

Well I did take her to the vet and let him know that she could possibly be pregnant.  He tried palpating her for pups but couldn't find any.  He also said because she is a dobie that she could possibly still carry her pups up in her ribcage.  Because I did not know the exact date I could be off by a couple of weeks so what we did was take an X-ray and bones couldn't be detected. He said bones don't start forming until 45 days afterwards so he told me to come in, in two weeks for another X-ray the clinic is the only one in town and he doesn't have an Ultrasound.  He took a sample of her clear/whitish discharge and I think he is doing some culture but thinks it might be normal since her uterus is cleaning itself up after the brown discharge that lasted 2 weeks after I got her.  He is not sure about the clear/whitish discharge though because he doesn't know a lot on the reproduction just the basics like she's carrying for 63 days....  He actually told me to feed her as if she is really pregnant, when I asked him about the trip he said that 2 hours in the car could not have caused an abortion but the stress to a new environment might have although he is not sure if she really did have an abortion or if it was the end cycle of estrus because he nor I new that she was caged in with a male dobie until I phoned the breeder.  As for her teats hanging low he said these signs could possibly be pregnancy or false pregnancies.  The veterinarian didn't really know whether she was pregnant or not, so I guess if anyone has ever had experience similar to mine than please respond and tell me what happened.  Greatly appreaciate it.  Also I called the breeder today again and she said that they mated a lot even a couple of days before I adopted her, so I guess if she is pregnant I would there would be a +/- 14 day gap of when I should expect the pups.  I also asked the breeder if she had ever had any discharge before she was pregnant, "Pepper" was pregnant 3 or 4 times before, she said, "I don't pay attention to those kind of things" as her dogs are outside and she has A LOT of other dogs to take care of.  As for "Pepper" she is doing fine, she is so affectionate and follows me everywhere I go, she even wines by the door when I in the bathroom, she is the sweetest dog ever.  One thing though is she is a VERY picky eater, she has to have chicken breasts with everyone of her meal, or else she'll cover her food up.  I love her though:)
Thanks,
destiny

God, my opinion of that breeder gets even lower!!  Sounds like a puppy farmer.  Thank goodness she now has a good home with you. 

There is a blood test for pregnancy which your vet may be able to obtain - will probably be more useful and less harmful than repeated X-rays.  It might be worth asking him to do that.  Good luck.

HI, the first thing I would do is change your vet, I travel 50 miles to mine because he is the best in the area. There are several vets that are nearer, but by asking experienced dog owners in my area I found that most of them travel to my vet too!!  I would take her to a vet that does have ultra sound and get her scanned asap or as was previously suggested have a blood test done to test for pregnancy.  Then you will know what you are dealing with. If she is 6 weeks pregnant then she should be much hungrier than normal, though as you have only recently got her her appetite may be supressed through stress.

A vet that knows little about pregnancy/whelping bitches is not the vet to have if you do have a pregnant bitch! I have never had a bitch x rayed for pregnancy       ( let alone twice) and x rays are not a good thing to subject a bitch and puppies to for routine diagnosis, its also very  expensive.
Once you have determined whether or not she is pregnant you can continue her care in an appropriate way.
Good luck.

I wonder if you are in the USA, Destiny, as Xraying seems to be more commonly used in pregnancy than in the UK where scans are generally used.  There may be some confusion about your vet too, if that is the case, as there seems to be some sort of veterianary nurse praticioners in the USA which have no equivalent in the UK, judging from a poster I remember we had on here they are able to do this sort of thing and even prescribe but cannot do surgery in which case you may benefit from a consultation with a veterinary surgeon.

I am from the US, I live quite far from the city.  I have called out to see where the next closest hospital that has a scan/blood test is and it's 2 hours away.  Since X-raying is not a good thing for her(from your suggestions) I think I will not get her X-rayed again.  As far as my Veterinarian, I don't have any choice because he is the only local one.  I know he does house calls but I don't think the other veterinarians would like to travel an hour to my place.  As for Pepper she is spotting clear/white(with a little pink sometimes) mucous discharge and is doing well.  The veterinarian said Pepper might be having pyometra because of her discharge changing from light brown to clear/white.  He said the best thing to do is spay her but he is unsure because her temperature is normal.  He told me that it could kill her so I have an appointment on Tuesday to spay her.  Tell me what you guys think I should do?  I appreciate all your help.

Hiya

Sorry to hear you have had such a bad time from the breeder.  I have 4 Irish Setters of which 2 came from the same breeder.  She has been absolutely wonderful over the last 6 years giving lots of advice and help and is now a very close friend.  Is your bitch drinking excessive amounts of water?  This is a sure sign of pyometra.  If the discharge was around the time you got her it probably was the end of her season.  Pyometra does not usually occur until at least a month after the season has finished as it is caused by bacteria entering the uterus during the season.  If her temp is normal than that also suggests there is no infection.  Unfortunately it does not sound like you have a local vet which is familiar with these problems which does not help the situation.  Have you tried to call the other hospital to find out if there are any mobile scanners which cover your area?  Here in the UK it is quite popular to have someone come to your house and scan for pregnancy.  Can he not do a blood test for pregnancy?  Personally I would not have her spayed unless you are sure she is not in whelp as it will really confuse her as the pregnancy hormones would already have kicked in plus being re-homed - what a stressful time Pepper is having.  Also to be honest if he is that unsure about conditions such as pregnancy and pyometra then I would not really want him to do the spaying anyway as I would have to have complete confidence in what they were doing.  anyway good luck but please do try and find out if she is in whelp before you make any big decisions

Hi

I actually once had a pregnant bitch speyed.  She was nearly 7 years old and I had not mated her and did not have a dog, but I realised she was pregnant at about 4 weeks.  A neighbour then told me that a large mongrel dog had jumped into her garden several times and she had also seen  him leaping my (6ft) fence at the end of the garden where there are trees.  So I assume he was the father.  As she had had a caesarian with her 3rd litter 2 years before I did not want to risk her having more puppies.  The vet told me I was wrong and she was not pregnant.  By 6 weeks it was obvious that she was and I asked him to spey her.  She was my pet and I did not intend to risk her life by having to have another caesar at nearly 7 years old.

He rang me after the operation to say that not only was she pregnant, but because of her age and the previous caesar her uterus was very thin and she could well have ruptured.  So it was definitely the right decision.  She lived to nearly 15 years old, so speying did her no harm at all.

Well from your advice the veterinarian confirmed that she is actually pregnant because he heard heart beats in her stomache.  He also did a physical on pepper and said she is in good health although her canines all have chipped and all the front tooth are barely seen.  He said that this is probably from breeding pepper too much. Pepper is doing great but she still has white/clear discharge occasionally it is light yellow, her vulva is swallon and her stomache has gotten bigger.  Is it normal to have light yellow (like the color of the background) discharge, eventhough she is pregnant?  Or do you think I should be more alarm as my vet also thinks that she could possibly start aborting anytime?  I am scared.  When I call to other veterinarian hospital (2,3,5 hours away) I am never able to speak to the veterinarians, I guess they don't like to talk on the phone instead I talk to the receptionists and see if she can help (this never works).  Also I don't think I have the confidence in my veterinarian to have him spay her right now as this could be dangerous, he scares me everytime I come out of the veterinarian hospital though.  I wish there were better veterinarians in my area.  Any help from you guys will releive my stress is greatly appreciated.

If she has a light yellow discharge, then that sounds to me like pus and  she is almost certainly starting a pyometra, and needs to be operated on immediately.  Pyo is life threatening.

Whether you like your vet or not for goodness sake get her sorted asap.  He is the only one that can advise you on this, it is impossible to make a correct diagnosis over the internet.

My bitch had the same problem and afterwards she had 8 pups.  It happens all the time for my bitch and she whelps naturally.  You shouldn't be alarm some bitches do that and other bitches don't.

The discharge sounds pretty normal to me for a pregnant bitch.  I usually say it is white and opaque, like the old Gloy glue we used to have at school (back in the dark ages).  But it often looks very slightly creamy, especially during the last week or so.  Sometimes it even hangs like a string.

Sounds normal to me too, it sometimes looks a bit yellow especially if she has recently had a wee!  Both my girls had this, both went on to have healthy litters.

The discharge sounds pretty normal to me too. My bitch had this when she was in whelp, espescially when coming close to having the pups. Hope everything goes ok for you Destiny, Keep us posted

Lady Dazzle, If it is impossible to make a correct diagnosis over the internet then why do you say that it is almost certainly the start of pyometra?????

Im just a little confused lol

Because if a bitch of mine was showing a yellow discharge it would spark danger signals and my first thought would be pyometra.

I too have had bitch's with discharge when in whelp but it has always been clear and opague or white,  not yellow as described by the poster, if you read all of her posts, you will understand that the bitch has come from somewhere where they weren't to fussy, which means that chances of infection from a mating could well have happened.

What I said was that the vet would be the best person to diagnose and I would rather she went and had it checked, than regret it if she didn't.

I would rather err on the side of caution, and will repeat that a diagnosis over the internet is not possible, we have no idea if this bitch has a temperature, she has not had the bitch very long, so if she was drinking more than normal she would not be aware of it, if her appetite was poor, it may have been due to new surroundings or to illness.

My Daisy had a yellow(ish) discharge and it was purely because of her weeing so much............if it was a pus discharge wouldn't it have a rather bad aroma about it?? 

Yellow stained from weeing I can accept Sharon (more so in a long coated breed), there is a difference, but the poster described the colour as being similar to the background on champdogs, that to me suggests pus.  She also said that the vet thought that she may have been starting a pyo.  A pyo can be take quite some time to become full blown. 

The only time I have had a bitch with a slightly creamy yellow discharge was just after a season and when tested her white blood cell count was high and she was put on immediate a/b's to stop a full blown pyo. He also said that she may be on the points of aborting and as you yourself well know that can lead to infection caused by dead puppies.

This is why I am suggesting that the poster sees the  vet and does not self diagnose with opinions from the forum.

I've been lucky that none of my dogs have ever experienced a pyo but would the discharge have a nasty smell if it was pus??  Sorry as I've never seen/experienced one just interested

There are two sorts of pyo Sharon closed and open.  The open is the one where there are varying amounts of discharge. To my mind the closed one is the one that most owners tend to miss until very late as there are few visible signs.

The smell is dependent to a great extent on the amount of discharge.  Yes there is a smell which once smelt is never forgotten.  If you imagine an abscess then that is the smell, but bear in mind that when it is starting it may only be a small droplet which will not smell as much as a heavy discharge.

IMO I think that if you know your bitch well enough then you will know when she is off colour.  I have very little problems with mine as if a BT goes off its food it is really ill.  Excessive thirst is another symptom.

One of my old bitch's had a pyo about 4 years ago, the only symptom she was displaying was she refused her food two nights running.  Because I knew her really well she was taken straight to the vet who after x-ray diagnosed a severe closed pyo.  She recovered but another couple of days and it might have been a different story.

Just a thought but the background to Champdogs comes up as different shades on different monitors - on my laptop it is very pale cream - on my work machine it is fairly bright yellow. So possibly people are interpreting the normalness or otherwise of this according to how they see it?!

The only way to be sure is a vet check as Lady Dazzle suggests. We can only speculate here.

Janet

I would like to thank all of you for helping me with my situation.  Maybe this might clear the confusion as to why I don't think my veterinarian is probably the right person to ask this because he specializes in large animals due to the ranches and farms here.  I did take her temperature today and it is 101.4.  She doesn't drink a lot of water and she does not urinate that often too (3 times a day).  The discharge is white/clear and after I read sharon message I noticed that after she pees it does turn yellow.  Her discharge does not have any odor.  She is doing well always happy and wagging her tail very affectionate.  I think from reading most of the post I am not going to spay her and see what happens.  Thanks all.  I will keep you guys inform.

Now that makes things much clearer, doesn't sound as though there is much to worry about. Thanks for expanding on her symptoms.

Proves my point though, that without full information it is very easy to misdiagnose over the internet, which is what I was trying to say.

Keeping my fingercrossed for you and your bitch.

Lady Dazzle gave her advice.  Whether it was right or wrong is not the point, she was just trying to help someone who was worried.  If people are going to be knocked or have sarcastic comments for genuinely trying to help, then we are all going to hesitate to offer advice in future.  There is so much good advice and help given on here that it would be a real shame if fear of criticism made someone decide not to answer a query.

I dont think anybody did knock or criticise lady dazzle did they?

Sorry, perhaps I misread the post.  I just felt that Sheppiemad had jumped on Lady Dazzle's comment a bit sarcastically.  I obviously got it wrong.

Sorry if I came across a little harsh there. A lot of things are misread when they are just written. I was merely trying to say that the only thing we could go off was the colour of the discharge and even then as someone pointed out we still wouldnt be sure what colour it was.

Anyway, I do hope everything goes ok for you Destiny and let us know what happens and when she does have those pups

Good Luck
Amy