Does anyone think that smoking while driving is as dangerous as holding an apple, or even using a mobile phone?? Lighting a fag, holding it while driving and the inevitable "cafuffle" when the fag or the lighted end drops on your lap has to be dangerous.  I hate driving over the still alight ciggy which the car driver in front of me throws onto the road, I always think it is dangerous.

I think its more dangerous then apple or phone, smoke could distract your vision, and if you drop it, your in trouble!

When the mobile ban was enforced dad even phoned into radio and spoke about it on there. 

I'm a smoker and I agree with you Csmad!  I simply wouldn't smoke and drive at the same time!  It's enough of a job to concentrate on the road etc without worrying about getting a lighted ciggie in your lap or worse

Lesley

My first boyfriend was a passenger in a car when the driver threw a cigarette end out of the window it flew back in causing him to crash, going through railings and hitting a tree.  Three months of our courtship was conducted at hospital bedside and he still has metal plates in his legs.

Institute of Advanced Motorists advise never to hold anything while driving, except the steering wheel :D  Also not to drive with window open, you would be amazed at the injuries caused by a stone coming up and hitting you on the side of the face.

I can't understand why the government has concentrated mainly on mobile phone use while driving and the odd food incident, the apple and the kitkat, but smoking never seems to be of any concern.  Also young children are a terrible distraction, not that you can ban, them of course!  When my daughter was a newborn baby sitting in the front seat beside me in a rear facing baby seat, I was so besotted with her that I couldn't take my eyes off her (is she still breathing, etc) and I looked up and just avoided going into the back of the car in front of me.  Lucky escape! But seriously, banning smoking while driving IS possible, so why have the government seemed to ignore that issue?

Quite simple csmad, the Government have "ignored" this issue as you put it, although I can think of plenty of other issues that are far more important, because of the tax that smokers put into their coffers, this country has many problems, smoking behind the wheel is a very small one, what about drug drivers????? Cigarette smoking does not alter the state of mind like alcohol and drugs.

IMHO, mobile phone use is far more distracting than smoking a cigarette.

Well, my father has been driving and smoking for 40 years and nothing untoward has happened to him. And he is also a IAM member. I have been driving for 20 yrs, I passed at 17 and my driving instructor used to let me smoke on my lessons. I can honestly say that in all the years that I have been driving, and I used to do 40,000 miles a year, I have never dropped a fag in my lap or had smoke in my eyes, had the odd soft drink can, amongst other things, thrown out of the car in front though, and had to swerve last minute to avoid my car being damaged!!! and followed many swerving cars around as, presumably the driver has been drinking/eating/talking etc. And the only car accident I have been involved in was when I was 14.

There are people who can drive and people who can't. It's like any skill in life, some people take to it and succeed at it naturally and some will fail abysmally and struggle because it doesn't come naturally, this I was told from a driving instructor. There will always be distractions when driving, a barking dog or a screaming child is one of many examples that can take your mind off the road.

What about people who haven't got the skills to drive in heavy rain, snow and ice, they IMHO are more of a hazard than an experienced driver who smokes at the wheel and has experience of these conditions. I did a skid pan course a few years ago, for those of you that haven't tried it, you should, it's quite a shock to realise that you aren't such a good driver afterall :)

Like everything in this Country, it is Political correctioness gone mad, I will continue to smoke in my car, it is my right, and it is not yet illegal, I pay enough money to buy my car, tax, insurance, service (road worthy cars) fuel, MOT when it is due etc. I think we should be concentrating on drivers who lack the skills or are illegal,  afterall it costs all of us legal drivers more in insurance every year, whether it be being hit by a moron who has never passed a test or a disillusioned person who has an appalling record and still carries on driving without any regard to others.

Law abiding, car driving citizens, are not appreciated in this Country......FACT.

I agree with you about other dangerous drivers, people who don't have insurance, etc, but I just wondered why mobile phone users seemed to be singled out in this way, when there are other activities such as smoking which are also distracting to the driver.  It is not a personal vendetta of mine against smokers, yes you have the right to smoke if you are not damaging other people, of course you do.  There is no need to be so defensive, it was just meant to be a subject for discussion, that is all.  There may be lots of people who have used mobile phones for years while driving who could equally claim that they have not had an accident either.  There are, indeed, may distractions to the driver, but why are mobile users and apple holders prosecuted, while other distracting activities are ignored?  If the government has "ignored" smokers behind the wheel because there are so many FAR more important issues as Hairypooch suggests, then why has the tax payer had to fork out £10,000 to prosecute someone for holding an apple (why not also for holding a fag), when that money could have been spent on something far more important? 

£10,000? Depends which newspaper you read, the police say they just utilised a helicopter that was in the area on another excercise and the cost was £60 which seems a lot more likely to me :)  I don't think anyone should do something distracting while driving and of course the law of being in full control of a vehicle will cover anything if the police can demostrate that you weren't I think they have to make a gesture every now and again to remind people.  Banning the use of handheld phones was obvious once studies showed you were 4 times more likely to have an accident.

the most obvious difference between holding say an apple or a mobile and a cigarette is that you can hold a cigarette easily in your mouth if you need to change gear etc.  Although I don't smoke (have tried it on the odd occasion), I find it really difficult to talk on the phone (before it was banned) or eat something like an apple and drive at the same time.  You can't change gear very easily, or turn corners, etc.  While smoking you could do both of these things without too much trouble.  Despite saying this, I feel that there is still a risk that you could drop the cigarette and cause a serious accident, so really smoking while driving should be banned.  It's not really enough to say you have been doing something for years and not had an accident, because accidents usually occur while people are doing the usual day to day things anyway.

Fiona

I think it is the lighting up and extinguishing when concentration is likely to be compromised.

I used to smoke 30+ a day, and yet could never hold a cigarette in my mouth without the smoke stinging my eyes so much I couldn't see. As far as I was concerned it was much safer to drop a packet of crisps into my lap, or hold an apple in my mouth (like a boar's head at a mediaeval banquet!) than smoke whilst driving.

Ah but could you hold an apple in your little hand as you navigated a turn?

Little hand? I'd be perfectly happy to drop an apple in my lap ... ;)

A pity that girl didn't have the sense to do that :)

Even when I was an active nicotine addict (once an addict, always an addict) I was aware how dangerous it was to do whilst driving. But if you're an addict (once an addict, always an addict!) your concentration goes out of the window if you need a 'fix' ...

It's very hard to balance which is more dangerous. Certainly the act of smoking whilst driving is as dangerous, if not more so, as eating, drinking, map-reading, talking on the phone, changing channels on the radio, talking to a passenger ......

once an addict, always an addict

Disagree. I used to smoke and I hate them now. Wouldn't smoke one for a million pounds.

If folk want to smoke in their cars - fine. If they throw it out the window and it comes into mine they better watch out.

After 16 years I still inhale deeply when someone else lights up. I'd love a cigarette. Just one. But it wouldn't stay at just one. Once an addict ...

Eaw, no. I absolutely hate it. The smell on people makes me want to be sick. My mum is a heavy smoker and when she gets in the car I wind all the windows down, even when its raining, to de-fume her and make her eat a stick of chewing gum LOL :D :D I wish she would give up - my kids hate it too (my 5 year old is always telling her she smells) :(

I smoked for 30 years (started at a very young age ;)) gave up 2 or 3 times for up to 18 months at a time and always felt I was a smoker who wasn't smoking.  The about 3 years ago, 3 weeks before Christmas! something just clicked and with very little todo I gave up and haven't given it another thought, going out drinking, other smokers etc don't bother me I sometimes think my husband had me secretly hypnotised :)

That is my point Fiona, accidents occur whilst doing day to day things, it really doesn't make smoking any more or less hazardous. I accept that there will be accidents that occur due to smoking, the same as, map reading, dogs barking, mobile phones, kids, or even a hot cup of coffee that has spilt all over you.

I have the advantage of a newish automatic car, and a very obliging passenger that lights my cigs for me and as I have said before, it is not illegal yet........whatever next, the housesmoking police? Excuse me madam, is that a cigarette that I see you smoking? Can I see the packet to confirm that you have paid UK duty? Why are you smoking it in your house that you have paid rent/mortgage on? How many times a day do you smoke? What colour underwear do you have on? you do realise that you cannot wear underwear that colour on a Saturday, I hope you don't eat meat!! What........you also enjoy a drink, right, thats it, you are off to the nick!!!!! I hope that you don't partake in carnal pleasure too often, we would hate to see you actually doing something that you were well aware of the risks but ENJOYED!!!!!

csmad, I am not defensive, just stating facts :)

Something that you probably do not understand, (I presume you are not a smoker) is that I, as a smoker, am sick and tired of being penalised and lectured for participating in my habit. I am well aware of the health risks and am one of the very few who do not wish to give up, let alone, get help to give up,  I pay through the nose for it, ie, Government tax. I can no longer partake in it in some establishments, quite rightly so as far as non smokers are concerned, a good percentage of the money that I pay for a packet of cigarettes goes into the NHS, yet I am constantly reading that smokers will no longer be treated (I pay for private health insurance, so the NHS doesn't come into it for me)

We as a family pay a very heavy tax bill each year being self employed, if I counted the tax on cigarettes that we contribute, then I would probably die of a coronary :P

A case in point, my best friend who smokes incidentally, had a serious accident a few months back, the reason, she was on her hands free mobile phone at the time, without a cig, I hasten to add and the other driver that was involved is being prosecuted for reading a map!!! Says it all really ;)

I think they should ban handsfree as well :)
I've not heard smokers were not going to be treated on the NHS.
I thought the selfemployed paid the same rate of tax as the rest of us, perhaps it just seems more in a lump sum?

Smokers not being treated on the NHS Isabel it is an old story, my Dr even told me a few years ago that this could be the case if I didn't make the effort to give up. I went through a stage of wanting to give up but then realised that I actually enjoyed it and that there are probably a thousand things that I could/will die of anyway.

As we are in the upper tax bracket and pay 40% it seems like a lot. Also, we don't have the luxury of taking sick pay, holiday pay. How many millions of pounds does workers going sick cost the Country each year? I cannot put a figure on it as the media keeps changing it ;)  we work 52 weeks a year and are penalised far more than PAYE.  This is not a choice, it was that, or live our life at the tax payers expense. I am a little defensive because I hate the way that every lay about in the country seems to have an easy life, yet if you work hard and take pride in being honest then work out what you give to our Government in tax, it certainly makes you think.

Not meaning to go off on a tangent, we rent privately, by the time we pay all of our bills inc council tax, even on a gross high wage, we don't qualify for a council house or any of the benefits of being on the system, yet we cannot save anywhere near enough to buy a house :( We are not rewarded for being law abiding hard working citizens.

Smokers are certainly treated on the NHS, some consultants will not perform certain procedures on smokers if they will not give up and therfore the procedure will not benefit them for example some cardiac conditions I think that is sensible.
Wage slaves pay higher tax too if they earn in that bracket :)
If you are in the higher tax bracket I would say you are being rewarded for being law abiding hard working citizens :).  Lots of people can't afford to get into the property market at present I'm sure things will change eventually these things work in cycles.  If it any consolation I have all my money invested in property instead of a pension but when I sell it I will pay 40% tax on the profit even though I have no other income to speak of, inequalities occur, you just have to decide how you will run your life accordingly :)

<<<Smokers are certainly treated on the NHS, some consultants will not perform certain procedures on smokers if they will not give up and therfore the procedure will not benefit them for example some cardiac conditions I think that is sensible.>>>  

I am glad you think it is sensible, Isabel, try telling that to a 7 year old and a ten year old when their father dies because of refusal of treatment because he was a smoker.  The Consultant words, Give up cigarettes then we will operate. 

And did he give up?  Whats better put him through the pain of an operation that would fail anyway if he continued smoking?

Yes, the day he died. 3 weeks later. So he never did get that operation on his leg

That is disgusting Kay, and I am truly sorry. What ever happened to the old days, regardless of lifestyle we will treat you? Makes you think of people like George Best, he carries on drinking, despite getting a new liver on the NHS

Thanks, but this actually was in the old days, it was 19 years ago when we were still allowed to smoke in our beds in hospitals before they brought in the smoking rooms.

Sorry folks, just having a bad day :D 

I have to admit I do agree to a certain extent with what you have said, it just sort of hit me for a minute.

I too think that it is pointless performing certain procedures on smokers if they won't give up, that is why I have the security of PHI and pay for the pleasure of it ;)

I know that wage slaves pay the high tax rate too, if they earn in that bracket, but do they have the sleepless nights and insecurities of worrying about that next account, or that next job. Because if you don't get that next account then you very well could be finished, as in bankrupt!!! If you work for a Company, and have a good wage, you will get your wages at a set time each month and have the back up of redundancy etc, you don't take the same high dependancy of worry home with you. When you are SE, you never know when you will get your money, which makes paying your monthly bills very hard, your bills are all on a certain date, but your money isn't. We have recently had to wait for £8,500, it was due back in September :( You don't even want to know the problems this caused, especially for Xmas and our daughter.

As we are in the higher tax bracket, how are we being rewarded, for being law abiding, hard working citizens? I cannot see it myself, when I look at other Countries.

There are many in this Country that feel the same way as me, why we stay, I don't know Perhaps if my health had held up, like so many others in our position, I would be working and bringing in an extra income as I was previously and not just helping out in our Business, then we would be in the position to leave and have a better quality of life.

The 10K came from the fact it went to court ten times I think?

well said!! Hairypooch

whatever next, the housesmoking police? Excuse me madam, is that a cigarette that I see you smoking? Can I see the packet to confirm that you have paid UK duty? Why are you smoking it in your house that you have paid rent/mortgage on? How many times a day do you smoke? What colour underwear do you have on? you do realise that you cannot wear underwear that colour on a Saturday, I hope you don't eat meat!! What........you also enjoy a drink, right, thats it, you are off to the nick!!!!! I hope that you don't partake in carnal pleasure too often, we would hate to see you actually doing something that you were well aware of the risks but ENJOYED!!!!!

You certainly do sound defensive, Hairypooch, probably not unreasonably, because there has been a big 'campaign' against smokers in the last few years and it looks like not smoking in public places may become law here soon, just as it has in other countries, like Ireland.  I do understand how you feel, but probably the apple lady felt rather put upon that she could not hold an apple in her hand without the 'apple police' getting her.

It is true I am not a smoker, but I do understand about addiction and I think smoking is fine for the individual as long as it doesn't affect anybody else, and the rules concerning smoking outside of your own home must be fair to everyone in society.  I just can't understand why it is OK to light up and smoke a fag at the wheel when you can't hold (she didn't even take a bite of the apple as I understand it) an apple.  Do you ONLY smoke when you have an obliging passenger in the car to light up for you?  When you hold a fag in your mouth it stings your eyes like mad so that would be distracting for a driver (I know because as a youngster I foolishly tried ciggies).

We too are in the 40% tax bracket, but not self employed.  I can assure you my husband has a very responsible and worrying job, when he comes home sometimes he can't eat or sleep, worrying if he has forgotten about something that might cause someone's death (electricity industry), he is going through a period like that at the moment.  He too worries about where the next job will come from for his firm and has had to be involved in making people redundant and watch their lives fall apart, wondering when it might be his own turn.  So the self employed do not have a monopoly on those worries, not all PAYE jobs are cushy.  We too are sick of paying for all the 'layabouts', my husband pays more tax than some people earn and he has no choice about how it is spent.

PS  I think Isabelle speaks a great deal of sense!

Thank you, csmad :)
I think consultants are in the business of trying to save lives when ever they can, although this was a while ago I'm sure it was always so, I'm sure if he felt the operation could have been useful he would have done it but freed from the emotions that family feels he would have known when it was not appropriate.
Hairypooch, if you are in the higher tax bracket I really can't see that life can be so bad :) and the vast majority who are not and also work very hard must wonder what you are moaning about.  A good accountant will help you plan for your tax bills, its not as if you don't know they are coming :)  Personally I think you are sitting pretty, as my income comes mainly from investments I pay the higher rate if I earn more than just over 8K a year!  My husband is employed (and happily reaches the higher rate :)) but I can assure you few wage slaves feel any great security these days, gone are the days of a life long job and consequenctly with people changing their jobs more often these days redundancy pay is not what it used to be, if you qualify at all.

I can only second what you say, Isabel :) My husband lost his job 11 years ago. He had been employed by the same (American :( ) company for over 20 years. He only got the minimum redundancy pay and subsequently, when the British company went into liquidation, lost all of his pension. However, I have always taken the view with taxes, that you have to have the money in the first place in order to have to pay the tax on it :)

I don't quite understand what you are saying about paying higher rate of tax at £8000 as you only have investments ??

Daisy

Capital Gains Tax, Daisy, that's the most you can make each year before paying 40% actually the allowance is an annual thing and as I don't sell stuff every year and therefore don't claim an allowance every year sometimes it is lost and I pay more tax as the profit of several years may fall into one, if you follow me :)  As I choose to stay at home with my dogs this is the way I have provided myself with a pension, but as I knew the score before deciding to do this I'm not complaining :)

I understand now :) Thought that you were just talking about 'interest' income from the investments :)

We have three very elderly, close relatives in nursing homes - between them it is costing about £75,000 a year. All three have had to sell their homes to pay the fees. None were particularly wealthy and had all scrimped and saved throughout their lives to buy a house and save for their old age. They would have been better off, if they had just spent every penny of their earnings, had holidays abroad etc etc and then they would have had their fees paid for them :(

Daisy

I smoke but not whilst driving. I usually light up when the car stops. I've never liked flicking ash out of the window...always seems to blow back in the car (just haven't the knack). Hubby is a non smoker so all hell would break loose if cigarette ash was detected in the car :D

  I have to confess though...I am VERY paranoid about my contact lenses and driving. I never wear glasses. I'm as blind as a bat. I worry about sneezing and one flying out, or getting something in my eye (it's agony in lenses)...even though in all these years it's never happened I do worry about it....