Just wondering what the supporters of the egg donation debate (and there were many on here when the subject was debated a little while ago) think about the lady who has given birth at the grand old age of 66.

Shame on the Doctors who performed the procedure :( and how selfish of the woman to want it . There seems to be little consideration here for the child.

JMO

liberty

I would have thought that 50 would be a more sensible cut-off age for the procedure. After all, that's the average age for menopause, so many women can naturally get pregnant at that age and still live long enough for the baby to grow up to adulthood.

Joyce. I think there is a vast difference between an egg donation pregnancy for a 20/30/40 year old compared to 66.

Only in terms of age though, Chloe.  The medical procedure is exactly the same.
And in this 'anything goes', politically correct society we're all now living in I didn't think we were allowed to be ageist/sexist/racist etc.

I disagree.

I have no problem ethically with women of natural childbearing age being helped to have children. Having been lucky enough to get pregnant easily in my life I feel I have no right to dictate on whether other women should not have treatment to help them with something that we are built to do - produce offspring. I have very strong maternal instincts and I am very, very lucky that I am able to satisfy them by having children. I can't imagine what people go through to not be able to.

That said, if this woman had had the treatment at 35 no-one would have batted an eyelid. The fact is that at 66 the womans body wouldn't naturally be able to conceive - and I am amazed she was fit enough to carry a baby through pregnancy. And thoughts must be with the child who is going to lose her mother early on in life.

I think that intervention should be done under natures own boundries.

She wasn't really fit enough to carry the child, she was born 6 weeks premature, weighing about 3lb which is not the best start for her and her twin sister died :(, these things happen anyway but I suspect the condition of the womb would have had something to do with this case.

'anything goes', politically correct ...

Surely that is an Oxymoron? If anything goes then we wouldn't need to be Politically Correct?

I agree with egg donation up to the age of 50, as JG said, the *usual* menopause onset age.

On a seperate note, I don't think that ageism is illegal as yet. As far as I know, there are moves to bring this in by December 2006 but, until then, it is not illegal (source : http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=593&id=1379922001 )

Edited: Sorry, that will not do a link, you will have to cut and paste :)

Thanks for correcting my ignorance, Melody.
This oxymoron style of government we have in this country at the moment has obviously got me a little confused :)
 

:D Me too Joyce ;)

Why on earth would anyone want to have a baby at this age ??
Fancy being 68 and having a toddler going through the terrible twos Its ok when you're a gran as you can give them back to their mums :)
But surely the child is going to spend his/her life looking after an elderly parent? Not that thats wrong but it just seems a little sad and selfish

I think its disgraceful by the time the child is 16 the mother will probably be dead.......how difficult will it be for a child to cope through there teenage years wthout a parent.

I know alot of children grow up with out a parent but wouldnt we all avoid that if it was possible.

I think that women is totally selfish and it makes my blood boil!

The trouble is that this is what happens when medical science pushes back the boundaries.
Not that long ago it would have been unheard of for any woman past the menopause to conceive. But IVF/egg donation etc has changed all that. The impossible has now become the possible.
Cases like this prove it's not always a good thing but once the techniques and procedures are there, there's no going back, unfortunately.

That is where guidelines and common sense legislation are Handy !!!!!

Can i just ask- was this in the UK or abroad?

Abroad

I think the woman was Romanian, lel.  (Maybe she'd have been better adopting one of her country's many orphans.)

Was the child for her to have if so someone should have said no but say for some reason her daughter had to have a hysterectomy(sp) at a young age but had some eggs frozen maybe she was just carrying the baby for her daughter if so why not we all know that papers only tell us what they want us to know.
Mary

She had no children of her own, and was a career woman by all accounts Mary. She had her opportunities to have children when she was younger, but chose not too. However at 66yrs she selfishly decided she wanted a baby. Originaly she was carrying triplets, this poor premature baby is the only survivor.

Not so, Mary.  She didn't have any children before this one, she said she had been unable to conceive naturally.

Triplets ? In a 66 year old woman- what on earth were the doctors thinking of?

Having read the papers and watched some snippets on the news (however accurate the media is???)
I am 100% adament that this is wrong. What a stupid, god acting Dr for treating her and what a selfish attitude she has :( Obviously, nobody has thought about the surviving child and what the future may hold for her.

I agree that this lady should not have been helped to conceive and bear a child at 66 years of age.  I was infertile myself and "tried" for a baby from the age of 20ish to 40ish.  I had IVF treatment and everything else you can think of that was available during those years. I understand the pain of infertility and the agony of wanting a child you cannot have.  I did manage to conceive (naturally!) once during all those years and now have a lovely 14 year old daughter.  We also adopted a child, too so I understand this topic from practically every angle.  I am now in my late 40s, and even though could still conceive naturally, I would consider myself too old to rear a young child now, let alone if I was 66.  When this child is 14 like my daughter, her mother will be 80!  What a huge generation gap!  I think it is morally wrong for doctors to help such elderly women conceive, even though I understand her pain.  Doctors should concentrate instead on the much younger women who cannot conceive naturally and find it hard to access affordable medical help.

I don't know what possessed the woman or her doctors, apparently she is an academic but what happened to common sense.

I find that it's not very common these days!! ;)

i think it is awful. she is obviousley a very selfish lady. she originally had triplets one died at ten weeks and the second was still born. there is obviousley a reason why women go through menopause at the age they do because their bodies are not strong enough to create a baby at the age of this woman

Hmmm - but no-one has any great objections if the father is elderly ! - not that I agree with EITHER becoming parents at this age - just playing devils advocate :D

Yvonne

That is a very valid point :)

Lucy
xx

I didnt realise that she didnt have kids before this so by the time the child is fully grown she will probably be dead.
My kids granny is younger than her and I dont think she could cope with a new baby of her own and she is only 51.
Mary

I think the point about the fact that people don't seem to mind about the father being elderly is a valid one.  It does seem unfair that older men don't receive the same level of disapproval, but the fact is that an older man needs a youngish woman to bear his child and at least the younger woman will still be there for the child, even if the elderly father does not make it through the baby's childhood!  In this case, this 66 year old woman does not even have a father for the child, let alone a younger one.  I would not think it was so selfish of her if she was at least in a relationship with the father of the child and that father was a lot younger than her.  Look at Des O'connor, a father again at 72!  I do still think he is being selfish, but at least the mother of the child is in her late 30s and statistically should be around for the child as it grows up.  However, I think that it is wrong for an elderly person of either sex to become a parent in their 60s or 70s.  This particular lady in question is so selfish that she has brought into the world a child with a 66 year old mother and no father of any age!  Whatever anyone says, fathers ARE important, I know I grew up without one!

My father married for the third time and he has just turned 70 and his two youngest children are 20 and 16.  I and many others felt it was too old for him to be a father at 54!!!

I have had the benefit of an active father who has been of practical nad emotional help to his older children.  My younger siblings won't have the benefit of this.

Whilst I see your point :) - one of the main factors in this is the ability of the woman's body to stand up to child bearing and the fact that 'most' women are the main carers of their baby, therefore taking the brunt of the physical effort needed :) Although, in this instance, I believe that she doesn't even have a husband :(

Daisy

I think it is totally wrong for someone of either sex to bring a child into this world, knowing they will be deprived of one of the most important human relationships early on in life.  Surely there should be certain guidelines in place regarding age, etc for IVF, etc.  Maybe it is one of those cases where money can buy anything if there is enough of it.  What a totally selfish lady!

Fiona

I just read she had hormone therapy to stop the menopause and started IVF nine years ago. Nine years! It's hard enough going through IvF in this country, we get 2 attempts on the NHS in our region. My sister tried once and couldn't face the second go. My sister in law is a sperm analyst at the Centre of Life in Newcastle I just know she'll be outraged by this story.
The law in Scotland states max age 38yrs, they're trying to have it raised to 40yrs...maybe the Romanians should take note.

Even worse at 80 (assuming they live that long) dealing with the awful adolescent stage.

Poor kid will have a few yrs free from her own diapers then have to change her Mums. Seriously, she'll be 86yrs old when the child is 20yrs, who do you think will be the carer then?
Instead of giving birth she should've registered for 'Adopt a Gran'.

Poor kid will have a few yrs free from her own diapers then have to change her Mums LOLOLOL

Yeah, lol.  To think that my teenage daughter finds me embarrassing, MOI!!!  A cool mum like moi!!  Just imagine if I went to parents' evening on my zimmer frame at 80 years old! It doesn't bear thinking about from either the child's point of view, or even the mother's.  One benefit of being an older parent of a teenager would be that you could turn down your hearing aid when they were playing their heavy metal music!!

i find 1 word to discribe this , DISGRACEFUL, what ever are they thinking of, this child could end up being without a mother at anytime, then who is going to pick up all the pieces, am totally disgusted by this
i did ivf myself which resulted in my now 2 year old little girl, i know too well the emotions of wanting a child but omg not at 66 !!!!

hey spook, just a note to say my ivf was done at the clinic your sister in law works 

My sister in law has a southern irish accent & would've had very blonde hair two yrs ago, if that rings any bells :)
I'm so pleased it resulted in your daughter! And well done you for being so brave and going through IVF :) You'll have to let me know how you are all getting along so I can pass all the news back to the staff.

Sharon will also tell me off for saying 'sperm analyst'...it's not an embryo-ologist?? Thats the female side it's a somethingelse ologist :D

Although I agree she is too old IMO, we none of us know when we're going to die - young parents of children get terminal illnesses/have fatal accidents too and leave their children to be brought up by others.

isnt it about time we realised that we do not have the absolute right to have children. Let nature or God depending on if you are religious or not and a little luck to make the decision for us. How can any woman have a child using donated eggs whatever age, if that is the only way to have a child then it seems that they are doing it only to satisfy a need to give birth not just to have a child, otherwise they would adopt wouldnt they ?

> otherwise they would adopt wouldnt they?

There aren't the babies available nowadays, mainly due to two factors: the high numbers of abortions and Society's acceptance of single mothers and illegitimacy. And of course most people would rather have a baby than adopt an older child with all the baggage that often comes with them. (Just as people get a new puppy rather than a deserving rescue dog.)

Thats not fair Coleystaff. It's not that cut & dry.
My sister had no physical problems, neither did her husband. They tried naturally for over 12yrs. They are both lovely people, been togther since they were kids and are now in their 30's. They'd make wonderful parents. IVF treatment meant they could use their own eggs/sperm. It didn't work and it was months of heartache and invasive examinations, totally emotionally gruelling. I'm lucky I have a daughter and I wish they could experience that joy. If they wanted my eggs...no problem. To her it could be a child to me an egg is a monthly cycle. But at the moment they are still recovering/grieving.
Adoption is fine if you don't mind an older child, possibly one with emotional problems/behavioural problems. Where you still have to allow contact with the birth parents, regardless of past events. I think it's a wonderful thing to do but cannot be compared to IVF, the reasoning behind both are totally different. Adoption in this millenia is totally different to the past, legislation has changed completely. Abortion and social acceptance means there are few babies if any waiting to be adopted.

& nobody should feel guilty about wanting a child of their own!

The 66yr old used her God/religion as part of her argument in favour of her situation.

I believe that the 66 year old is a University Professor......that indicates some degree of learning , so I wonder about her motives.

The only quote I could find for *using God/religion* was
'Iliescu said "every child that comes into this world does so because of God's will," and pointed to biblical examples of elderly women having children'

But I doubt that would have swayed Doctors too much :) Plus the Roman Orthodox Church is anti IVF

  "There has been mixed reaction to the birth in Romania, with the Romanian Orthodox Church taking a conciliatory line.

"The Bible preaches love and procreation at whatever age," said a spokesman."  taken from the National press.

Yes she was a professor & also a childrens author :)

*Iliescu has been criticised by leaders of the Romanian Orthodox Church, which disapproves of artificial insemination. Bishop Ciprian Campineanul, who heads the church's bioethics committee, said Monday that Iliescu's decision to have a baby that way was "selfish."*

Also taken from the National Press

The News is like a Supermarket ...you can go in, wander around and come out with whatever you want :D

Quite :D