i was talking to my mum the other day about getting another border collie from the same pace that we got codey from and she said that she came from a puppy farm but what is it?
she also said that its not a good idea to get a puppy form there but she didnt tell me why.
when i seen the website all it had was pictures of the puppies and a little information but that was it no pictures of the parents or anthing so i just wanted to ask what is a puppy farm? and why is it not a good idea to get a puppy form there?

On this website is a series of articles about puppy farming http://www.pedigreedogs.co.uk/ click on articles and you will find it explained.

Can anyone try and explain here? This is a question that comes up regularly, so it would be advantageous to have a thread that we can link to on Champdogs.

Putting it simplistically I consider a puppy farm to be anywhere that has muliple bitches and breeds at the lowest possible cost(no health tests,proper facilities etc) to produce puppies to make the biggest possible profit.
JMO,Archer

To me, a puppy farmer is anyone with no knowledge of their breed/pedigrees, who produces puppies purely to sell to the pet market.  The worst of these do not health check, are mating inferior quality dogs, and keeping them in unacceptable conditions.  All these factors often contribute to nice families buying unhealthy, bad tempered companions that are poor examples of their breed, who are liabilities and not assets to those families.

Anyone who breeds purely for monetary gain is in my opinion puppy farming.  They have no thought for the future of puppies they are producing, whether that be health or future homes and will sell to anyone who answers their adverts.

An example is a woman who phoned me recently, to tell me of a visit to see some pups, the producer of the pups had 23 bitch's, she was shown the stud dog but was not allowed to go near or touch him as he doesn't like strangers!!!  Stupidly she bough a puppy only to return it 3 days later as none of the puppies had ever been handled and it was as bad as a feral animal. this producer has never been near a showring in ehr life, has just bought bitch's and a dog and is producing pups at a rate of knots.

With the market price of this particular price being in the region of £500 per pup, and breeding 23 bitch's once each year at an average of say 5 pups a litter, this producers is earning on average £57,500 per year for very little input (i.e. health checks or handling of pups.

Another example is when I was asked to visit a producer of pups as a potential buyer as a person had been there as an honest buyer and was disgusted with what they saw.

I arrived, the pups were brought out of a shed and put on a lawn, they ran for the nearest cover, the grandson (age 3) of the producer running after them kicking and trying to grab them by any available boyd part!!!  I asked why the pups were so nervous and was told that as soon as the bitch weaned the pups, all he did was go in once a day put down a dish of food and leave them to it, as they bonded better with their new owners that way!!!!!!!!!! I was then shown a pedigree of the pups with written all over it what wins the parents had had, none of them were true, all a pack of lies.

Those are the people who are puppy farmers in my opinion, but coming a very close second are the people who breed only for the pet market from inferior quality and health pet animals.

Hi all,
I totaly agree with you Archer.

People who breed and sell all kinds of breeds or even just one type of breed can be classed as a puppy farm!

These people breed for MONEY!!!
No health checks on the parents, don't care who the pups get sold too as long as they get their money!
Some people even breed 'mother to son, father to daughter and brother to sister! Not thinking about getting good quality pup's good homes, just how much they can make! It knocks me sick. People who are first time buyers and who have not looked into the breed properly of what they want, usually get sucked in to buying a puppy from these kinds of breeder's.
These puppies being sold can have a very short life span, multiple illness's and even get desease's such as cancer epilepsy ect..........
Some bitch's are over bred. Mated each season that have till they are to ill or old to have any more!

My advice is: If you want a pedigree dog/bitch of a particular breed, then goto some show's, get to know the breed and ask the owners your questions. People will be more than happy to help you and direct you in the right way to respected breeders.
You may pay that little bit extra, but believe me, it will be worth it in the long run!
You get what you pay for.
Hope this has helped.

Amanda^..^
www.snowpawz.co.uk

Amanda, please remove your URL from your signature. Add it to your profile only.

I believe the number of bitches kept does not denote a puppy farmer. As an example, a person with just one bitch could mate it to a dog from "Down the road" every season from the first season, possibly as young as six or seven months until the bitch is 10, 11 or even 12 years old. I look at a greater interest in money that the wellbeing of the breed to be the deciding factor.

I knew a person who kept a bitch with her son together and they mated regularly as clockwork. Eventually the bitch died during the birth of some puppies! She never took any part in the birth of the puppies, saying that in the wild there would be no one to help anyway! (The breed indecently was Yorkies). Was she a puppy farmer or a fool?

Regards, John

John
I agree but I would call that sort of person a back yard breeder...just as bad but not doing it on the same scale?
Archer

Must admit don't like the term back yard breeder, because most of us who breed and don't have kennel facilities could be called that as all we have is a house and back yeard :D  Mind I do have a double kennel and run outsdie my kitchen as ther isn't room for mobile pups in my kitchen alone.

I have met loads of people who tell me they went to a proper breeder with kennels when in fact they brought from a deeler who had kennels.

I think it is the purpose behind breeding that is the key factor, not just numbers and facilities.

Ahhh...but Brainless you don't breed for money and you do do health tests!!....back yard breeders no more breed in their back yards than  puppy farmers do on a farm!!
Nikki

This is why I feel prospective puppy buyers get confused.

Come on Kerrie let us know what you understand by the term?  I think we are all agreed that a Puppy Farmer is osmeone who breeds puppies purely for monmey without any catre as to what happenes agfter they are sold.

So I suppose a new pet owners first questions should be 'What was the purpose of breeding this litter'.  The answer should not be for flossies good health, to have cute puppies etc.

Or so that everyone else can have a dog as nice as Flossie!! 
Because anyone who knows anything about breeding will tell you that it doesn't work like that!!

Strange how the pet owner forgets that the pups will also likely be like Dad too, so that just any Freddie won't do.  flossie and Freddie's pups may turn out dreadful aggressive cripples,a s maybe flossies Mum or Dad were,or some of her brothers and sisters.  Or maybe Flossie and Freddie both come from a long line of viscious brutes, and it was just pure luck Flossie turned out nice?

hey i cant get onto that site my comp is no good lol the site i was lookin at today was ******** i dont know if i was allowed to put that but that was where i got codey from i after what you were sayin i actually think it is a puppy farm but i am not so sure they had an advertisment in the paper that they only do border collies from working parents so that was why i wanted one

Please remember that every time you highlight a breeders URL you are infact promoting them. Please do not post URL and remember that the laws of libel apply to the internet.

Hi Kerrie,

What was the address of the place that you got Codey from?

Thanks,

Charlotte

The current cause of alarm in the USA, as this place advertises in the national dog press. You'd have to look at their website to form your own judgement. It might be better if they explained their reasons for crossbreeding, publicized their dogs pedigrees and provided medical evidence of health checks. The fact they encourage neurtering and spaying is a step in the right direction.

Edited weblink just in case it's against TOS. PM me if anyone would like the link.