Hi
Having spent the last 10 months struggling with a pulling (forwards!) pointer, I now have the reverse problem!  It only happens at the end of a free run when I put him back on the lead to return to the car and never happens anywhere else - be it walking around town, in the village or wherever.  

When we are on one of our 'loose walks', I frequently call him back and will put him on the lead for a few minutes and then let him free again.  I NEVER have a problem on these occasions, it is only when we are going across the last field to the car park.  There are probably four different country parks/farms/fields where I walk that this happens at; he sits down, pulls backwards and tries to wriggle out of his collar, pogo-ing around quite violently.  I have tried food as a bribe to go forwards, clicking and treating when he takes a step in the right direction, also squeaky toys....plus the, ok, we'll stand here and not move unless it's forwards and that includes 'no sniffing!'  40 minutes later when it was getting dark, I gave in.....tied him to the fence and went and got the car.  I should mention, that he has no problems jumping into the car and is happy travelling once in it.  I'm interpreting this as two paws in the air to me, an adolescent strop, saying I want to be free.  Any other views and how the heck do I cope with this behaviour please?

Cheers

Ooh interesting! I must say, weird though it is, i love problems like this :D because they can take uou forward as a dog trainer (well, once you have solved them LOL).

I wonder what's best? Does he enjoy his food? If so, i would try giving him wonderful food immediately he is back in the car: something John Rogerson recommends is what dogs dream of, like warm roast chicken. Maybe his dinner would do though. Or liver. If you can work it so that he starts to realise he gets a really fab reward when he gets back, you may well find it solves the problem and he is eager to get back. You could then start to gradually reduce the food but do it variably, and not too soon...what i find is that dogs tend to then have got into a "habit" of doing what is required, have got over their "phase" and there is no further problem.

I know this may seem as if he is being rewarded but in fact it is more classical conditioning which is about association rather than anything else, so it doesnt' matter what he does as long as he gets something really good as soon as he gets into the car. I would recommend for instance, that you feed him in the car for about a week, then start out on tiny walks (specifically for training) and then go to longer walks that you get the problem on. If he loves that association enough, he should be happy to get to the car after a walk.

I tend to agree he is probably pushing the boundaries a bit, but it wouldn't hurt to check over everything in uour mind - for instance dogs can be funny about things for reasons we often think are strange. ONe dog i was reading about on a training forum was dodgy about getting into cars because the owner had changer her car; another because the owner had changed the box he used as a step for the dog. I think the colour of the box was different even though it was the same type of box. Funny creatures, dogs <g>

Also, does he come back to you easily even though he knows this is the last bit of the walk: i wonder why he doesn't shy away from the lead or try to avoid having it put on, and if that is in some way significant.

Hth anyway
Lindsay
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Hi Lindsay,
Thanks for response.....nothing has changed re car - same filthy one! - same smelly dog bed in boot etc etc. :-) I have already had to up the criteria for recall in the last field, using cold roast chicken, liver or sausage as opposed to kibble or dog biscuits elsewhere. He then recalls fine and there is no struggle to get the lead on.   Once we get to the car, it is almost as if he resigns himself to the fact that we are going home and jumps in willingly (no bribery required!).  It is the bit in between that remains the problem.  :-( I have also on occasions sat with him in the car for 5 mins and then let him out again for a further run around.....ie car does not mean end of fun.  Maybe I need to do more of this and up the ante again.....next stop, Tescos hot deli counter for HOT roast chicken!  Oh well, if he ignores it I can always eat it and it will save cooking that night!  He is normally VERY food oriented, but he is also of working stock (plus German lines) and therefore very highly driven.  I just hope that his tummy will overcome the desires of his nose!

Thanks again for your suggestions....will let you know how we get on.

J

Has anything bad ever happened to him in that field?

BTW - with your sense of humour, you sound ideally suited to a GSP :)

Errr.....I'll take that as a compliment, but given some of the things my lad gets up to am not overly sure if it is actually one!!!  :-)

Re anything bad happening - the pulling backwards has happened in about four different separate parks/farms now and in each one he is fine on the outward bound trip across what is the first/last field. Only event to report at one site was when we had a 'bunny incident' and I got him to give up his trophy to me - he was NOT amused and sulked for ages after that.  But no, there have been no aggressive dog encounters or anything of that ilk.

Keep the ideas flowing and thanks for your time!

It was meant as a compliment (I have a Springer, so feel a 'kinship' ;))

What is the relationship between his normal feeding routine and his walks?  What about leaving his normal meal in the car so he knows it's there and ensuring he's actually quite hungry when you go out?

Good thinking Batman!  In the morning he's normally fed, rested an hour (worries re bloat etc) and then run.  Maybe we'll reverse that procedure and see what happens. Keep the thinking hat on!  Am determined to crack this one way or another and when I do there will be 'virtual' drinks all round! :-)

I have a Pointer.  My pointer is 20 months.  At the end of her off lead runs, she will come to me. I can hook her up to the lead and walk her right over to the jeep.  And she will not hop up in the back of the jeep.  She simply refuses.  Of course, this jump is no trouble at all on the way to the park.  So I sometimes I just pick her up, setting her in (while mumbling under my breath).  But, often she is wet.  So my Pointer trained me to toss a treat in the back.  Then a miracle happens!...with the grace of a gazelle...my pointer hops right into the back of our jeep. 

I really don't have any advice.  But, this post made me smile because I have a young Pointer.  How long and often does the Pointer get to run off lead?

Hi
Aren't pointers just wonderful??!!  As you so rightly say, they make great trainers and would have us wrapped around their (not so little!) paws given half a chance!  :-)

My guy is now 12 months old and on average he gets two free runs a day - each of between 45 mins to 1hr duration.  I use this time for training as well, so he gets to work his brain as well as his body and is not just tear-arseing around the whole time.  He also gets at least one short lead walk a day plus one clicker training session a day at home.  Sometimes, he gets more, depending on what's going on in life. Occasionally he also gets less, and seems to accept the variation without a problem.

He is of working stock and has a tremendous capacity for exercise and would be out there all day long given half the chance.  Although some may think he is doing too much already, I am trying to strike a balance between not doing TOO much and causing hip problems on the one hand and keeping him sane on the other. Any views appreciate.

Cheers

J

Our English Pointer get two off lead runs daily...each average 40 mins.  But, she would eagerly accept more.  At 1 year old, we gave her more like an hour each time...for the family sanity as well as our Pointer.

She has come a long way!!!!  I have threatened her with the Rescue numerous times.  She just gives me those "forever puppy" eyes. 

sounds like you got a smart dog on your hands do you respond to the backward pulling if soo he seems to be reiforced by your response

Hi there
We had a similar problem with a young border collie refused to go near the car to go out or come home but travelled alright once lifted in. He is much better now nine months later. We found that by using a long extending lead not looking at him or speaking to him but dropping a treat by us eventually he would get bored and come towards me. We then repeated this untill we could attach the lead inside the car and left food treats in the car eventually he would get in this usually took twenty to thirty minutes The secret in our case seemed to be ignoring him we now attach the extending lead inside the car on our drive and go back indoors as soon as the front door closes he gets in the car.

Hi

I have 2 GSP's which is chaos at the moment as one of them is on lead walks only due to damaged ligaments in her pastern making it swollen and heated so strict lead walks for a while to come yet (too much running and jumping has taken its toll!)

I had a slight problem with this about a year ago not as bad as yours but i managed to fix it.  How is your boy if you went to the car off lead would he follow you or just stand there?

Mine would just stand there as if to say im not budging i want to go round again so one day i took her on her own to a very quiet place gave her a normal walk and at the end got in the car leaving her behind just stood there looking lost. i drove up the lane and parked the car hidden and watched her in the mirror. It took over 15 minutes of her just standing there thinking about it before she suddenly started sprinting down the road towards me.

I guess shed had time to assess what had happened in her own time and came to the conclusion that shes safer within the pack. Ive never had a wont go home easily problem again.

Hiya
The reason I started putting him on the lead in the last field was because by the gate to the carpark he would do exactly as your dog did....namely, stay at a distance, not actually running away, but neither coming up to me.  I deployed the same tactics as you too and he was back running alongside the car before I was out of first gear.  I've had to do this twice and I was a bit scared of it losing effectiveness which is why I resorted to the lead.

However, I THINK WE'VE CRACKED IT!!!  Almost a week on and a combination of ideas seem to have come up trumps!  We now walk on an empty stomach - no brekkers or dinner - and we invest in copious quantities of Tescos Finest pate and Hot roast chicken! The only problem is that I am not very popular with the other dog walkers as I now invariably acquire an extra couple of labs who surgically attach themselves to me at the first whiff of the hot roast chicken!  Oh well, you can't win them all!  :-)

Thanks to everyone who took the time to give my predicament some thought and came up with ideas!  Knowing my boy, I'm sure we'll have another little 'challengette' for you in the none too distant future!

Cheers

Great stuff - your next challenge is to wean him off Tescos Finest Pate and roast chicken (may I suggest Tescos Value brand ;))

Excuse me!  This is a VERY discerning pointer we're talking about here!  :-) I think he currently believes that all his birthdays and Christmases have come at once!

LOL he is very discerning!! ;)

What you will probably find now is that he should, we hope, get so used to doing what you want that he will forget his "phase" and as Digger says, you can gradually wean him off the Tesco's finest pate onto something a little less exciting and then gradually to just a kind word and praise with maybe the occasional food reward. If you see the behaviour returning, carry on with the posh treats and use your judgement as to when to wean him off..... I laughed about the Labs, your walks are very entertaining !!!

Lindsay
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