Just had some awful people wanting to buy one of my pups.They sounded really nice on the phone,but as soon as they came to the door,I knew!
It was awful...all I kept thinking was how do I get them to go,they seemed to think they could just buy him...when I asked if they had a nice bed for him they replied "not yet they would stop off at Asda on the way home",to which I replied perhaps you could come back for him when they had a bed and some food (anything to get them out of the door without my pup) then they said it was along way to come!
The dog would get plenty of exercise in the "yard".
It was so hard trying to tell them that they could not have the pup...they were very cross!
I'm not a breeder and had an accidental mating...but it really is a nightmare trying to suss people out on the phone.

What kind of puppies do you have???
Too bad about the ijiots. Hope you find better people in the future.
toodles

Good for you Kay Doesn't matter how you get rid really, best to avoid unpleasantness at the house though so dont be shy about giving them a good grilling on the phone.

I have most certainly learn't a lesson tonight...they are Jack Russells and I had 4 ,this was the last one.
Just had the most lovely email from one of the new owners...it made me cry!
Just so glad I didn't let him go with them...I would never of forgiven myself.

Well done Kay
Go with your instinct

Karl

There was an interesting article on law in Dog World recently......it stated (approximately like this) that unless you say in your advert " to approved homes" then by way of contract law, you can be sued if someone comes to buy a pup & YOU choose not to sell them one for whatever reason (Ie you don't think they are suitable etc)So a good reason to put that into the wording of your puppy advert!

Yep-read that too. Seems that sort of wording was needed and used more than anything else in yrs gone, so more important than anything else! Well done for not letting pup go though! Even severly vetting people on the fone dosn't stop the oddballs slipping the net! I always tell people coming that they view the puppies with no obligation to purchase, and under the understanding that should i think the home is not suitable after the interview then I am under no obligation to sell. Then we all know where we stand! Puts some off, but hell I don't care, so long as the homes I pick are good and permanent.

I had to turn down a family for one of my puppies and I felt awful.
The family turned up minus the wife who was too busy!!!!!!!! and even though the 3 children were told not to touch the puppies yet ,they did.
I then asked the family when they would like to come over again and was told oh no not till we collect her!!!
I sat and thought for 3 days and decided if the wife couldnt find time to come and see them and the kids pulled the pups about then I thought them unsuitable for one of MY puppies......
When I told him he was upset but I couldnt sell them one and then worry what was going to happen to it!
You did the right thing and I hope you find a good home for the puppy

Don't feel awful Emma--that home would never have been right! We had a couple and their 3 kids come once-very well-spoken, huge expensive car, expensive clothes and all the 'gadgets' ready for pup. They wanted 2 from the same litter (never said that on phone) and to be honest they must have been round the breeders coz on the phone they knew the 'right' answers to all questions. The kids came in and totally ran riot round my house--upstairs, into bedrooms, playing in the bathroom, splitting up so I didn't know where they were-and the parents just took this a being 'typical naughty inquisitive children' Mine--who can be a handfull at times--just looked with wide open eyes!
I didn't even get a pup out to show them, or for that matter the Mum of the litter because I didn't trust the kids round her, as they had pulled my old dog about enough! They were told in no uncertain terms that they needed to get their kids under control before they even thought about having a dog, and they simply could not understand my attitude and their suprise when I showed them the door and without a puppy was amazing to behold--I was probably the only person who had ever knocked them and their money back before!! Could have been nasty, but you have to take total control of the situation and remember they are in your house, you have every right to tell them to leave, and the sale is totally up to you. If you are friendly but firm, then usually it is OK. I always ensure that if someone is coming and I am alone that a friend will regually call me, and we have a code which means she would alert my husband, or her husband, and decend on my house. An emergency code would be Police. It
helps if you feel uneasy-and in this day and age you never know whos going to turn up.

I agree that this is one of the harder things about breeding. I turned one family down, and felt really awful, but I knew I would have layed awake worrying about one of my puppies with this family. He was my last puppy to be chosen. 1 week later a lovely couple came who I knew were just right. They had a long drive just to see him, and came back 2 weeks later to collect him, sent me some lovely photos six months later showing one very contented looking dog. I was so glad I waited for the 'right' people.
Lorna ;)

Think i'm getting paranoid now...had several phone calls this weekend but i'm afraid I have turned them all away as i'm so worried of getting in the same situation again. Told one lady that I was particular about where he was going etc and she put the phone down on me.
If I decide to keep him that will mean that I have 2 boys and 1 girl,obviously both boys would be done...but would there be a dominance problem? Plus it is not really pratical to keep him as I do work part-time,4 hours a day and don't like leaving him that long and when I come home I have to go out with the other two hence leaving the poor little fella again.
Any suggestions welcome.
Many thanks Kay

Kay - I'm sure you'll know by instinct when the 'right' people come. I don't think you're being paranoid, you should be cautious and any potential purchaser would appreciate that. One family that bought one of my puppies commented that they were so pleased that I'd asked them lots and had endorsements and a contract as it made them feel confident that I was a responsible breeder.
Lorna

I am sorry to have to post when I don't post very often but just had to because the advice posted about Adverts and contracts is 100% wrong.

Firstly you don't have to sell a dog to anyone for example IF I put an add in the paper and it reads " Mr. Paul Smith from Rose Street please buy one of my pups" and that very person comes to buy a pup and once they have come me as the breeder decides not to sell this is 100% definately OK.

Politely FYI only A contract is only made when:

1. There has been an offer from the purchaser and
2. The contract is ONLY COMPLETED when the seller agrees? "accepts the offer"

at this point only is a sale "a sale".

If at a later date say a week " after the offer and acceptance had taken place "before a buyer was due to pick up a pup the breeder had doubts about buyer, generally if this doubt is fair and reasonable then even at this point the breeder can back out. The purchaser can not insist the person sells the pup.

The only time where there is grey area is when the offer/acceptance has taken place and the buyer comes to pick up the pup and if at this time the breeder changes his mind he would be responsible for an expenses the buy had incured.

Every word I say is true. I have studied contract Law for 3 years.

There is even less obligation to a buyer if the Breeder is not a registered breeder and it is a private sale.

If anyone has doubts about this the terminology is know under contract of sale as "Invitation to treat" this lays out when and at what point is a contract of sale valid.

Please take this in kindness.

Pam

I'm glad you have posted as above, I was suprised to read what had been said higher up as when I was working even if I had put something on sale with a price ticket I had understood that I did not have to sell it to someone if I did not think it wise. It was a few years ago and had thought things had changed but I'm relived to see they have not. JH

I was simply quoting what had been written in DW, maybe someone could query their sources?

Hi Kay. When I have people contcting me for puppies I have these conditions that they have to meet before they are invited to come and see the puppies:
1) No children under 5 (my personal preference-others may disagree)
2) The main puppy carer must be an adult and be out of the house for no more than 4 hours a day
3) They must live in a house with a well fenced garden - i.e. not a 3rd floor flat
4) If they have not had a young pupy before they are warned in no uncertain terms that the puppy will wee/poo on their carpets and chew their possesions, no matter how careful they are there WILL be accidents
5) They are warned that a puppy takes up a great deal of time to begin with, house training socialising, general training, travel training, no more Sunday lie ins, and if they have to be out all day without the puppy occasionally, that someone must visit, play with and feed the puppy at least twice during an 8 hour absence til its at least 6 months old when one visit will suffice.
6)Also that puppies, even small breeds are expensive to keep: vaccinations, insurance,regular flea and worm treatments, quality food is not cheap and thats just maintenence, reagardless of emergencies/illnesses.
With intelligent conversation you can find out a great deal without actually asking direct questions, so that they are not alerted to your real agenda, and they may actually tell you the truth.
If people have put up with me this far and are still keen, they are invited to come and see the puppies, but at no point do I ever say that they can actually have one. I say that "When you come, if you like what you see and I feel you will be a suitable owner, then they may have a puppy" The appointment is made for my convenience, not theirs, they have to fit in with me ! As I get most of my enquiries via the internet and first contacts are usually made by e mail, I then e mail them a copy of the sales contract and conditions of sale, so there is no way that they can be "surprised by anything" at the time of sale and they are fully informed (if they can read!!) of what is expected of them.
When the appt. - to view-not buy- is made they are informed that they are expected to be on time and to please let me know if they will be more than half an hour late and that there is absolutley no obligation for them to buy or me to sell. I say I will keep a puppy for them to view NOT necessarily to collect or buy.
When they arrive before they are shown any dogs they are asked not to pick any dogs or puppies up, and to be careful not to tread on them. If there are children they are given a clean vet bed to sit on on the kitchen floor(!) and the puppies can crawl over them, and they can pet them but NOT to pick them up. They are first shown our two bombproof house dogs, and I see how they are handled. If I am happy I then show them the mum and pups and bring the pups into the kitchen- I usually stand in front of the door to the rest of the house!!
After the puppies have been in with us for 10 minutes or so I have a good idea how the puppy will be handled/treated.Then , knowing that they want to a particular sex, offer to put the others away so they can choose which one they like- or if there are individual puppies that are already booked, or for some reason unsuitable ( people with smaller children are not allowed to have the dominant puppy usually)they are removed too, so that there are probably only 2 or maybe 3 to choose from.Only then, is it made clear to them that they may buy a puppy, if they want to. If I am not happy with the way things are going, I say " I am sorry but I dont wish to sell a puppy to you" and knowing how far they have come, offer them their petrol expenses and very nicely ask them to leave. I have done this 3 times and felt a complete heel with one family because the wife and children were sooo nice but the husband was a complete pig. The wife and kids were in tears, but he was so horrid and didn't want a "smelly puppy in the house-it would be in the shed when he was at home".
If I am on my own - which I often am, I keep a blank tape in our radio/cassete in the kitchen and if things get heated I can just flick the record button to get the conversation on tape, but I have never had to yet!
Right from the start people get the impression that they have to convince me they will give the puppy the right sort of home and usually if people get as far as being invited to view, after all my questioning ,they are usually offered a puppy. But many fall by the wayside, long before they come, either because they "have had enough of my questions" or I have told them I dont have one available any more, as I never agree to a sale until I have met them. Sorry this is so long - hope its helpful Kay. I am sure you will eventually find the right homes for your remaining pups- just be strict!! Those that really deserve one and will give a good home do exist. Good luck.

Ok - now I'm scared :D :D :D

Only joking,

Fiona
x x x

Well Westie Lover must have liked me, as I have not long bought one of her puppies !!!!!!!!! Cookie is doing very well and coming along nicely at training classes, and yes, ive refused to sell a puppy to a "lady" who came along to view a litter with her two children, one in a pram! that she never told me about, and a boy of about 5/6 who screamed as soon as he came into the house and saw the puppies in a puppy pen, so I politely said to her, i'm sorry you have had quite a distance to come here, but, I cannot sell you one of my pups, if your son is like that with a 7 week old puppy, what will he be like when the puppy is 14 weeks and teething!!!! I then found an excellent home for the pup with a lovely couple who had no children, who I have since re-homed the mother of the puppy to as well. This happened a few years ago.

Finally, some appreciation for us 'childfree' couples!!! :D :rolleyes: We never get any respect, to quote an infamous comedian ;)

Perhaps you need some rules and guidlines for breeders as well as purchasers. We have recently bought an english setter puppy whom we adore. It was insane to look at the puppy as we were on holiday in scotland staying with (dog friendly ) friends. However we looked at the puppy principally as we were extremely keen to have an English setter anyway. On arrival we explained that we were on holiday, but quite frankly all the breeder wanted was to get rid of the pup which had been bred in Ireland and then shipped off to Scotland. She seemed a bit anxious and wouldn't go to the breeder at all. I asked the breeder about food and she was feeding a 14 week pup 0nce a day. There was so much else wrong and in truth we weren't at all prepared for a puppy but we decided that this puppy would be better with us than with her. Its been a steep learning curve and we have started puppy socialising classes which is a mine of useful information but it really isn't always the purchasers who are at fault and the most unprepared of potential purchasers can be nurtured into good and caring pet owners. Our puppy has brought us much happiness the breeder we purchased her from still hasn't even furnished us with the name of the original breeder or innoculation onfo.
Claire

Ctf.

I am so pleased that you love your puppy and are doing your best by her!

The person you bought her from was a puppy dealer and not a breeder. Even if she had bred the pup herself her manner would have showed her up as being just a puppy producer, if not an out and out Puppy farmer.

this will sound callous, but it is well meaning people exactly like yourself, that take pity, and buy pups from such people that inadvertently keep the sorry business of puppy farming and dealing going.

The best thing that could happen would be for no-one to be willing to purchase puppies from people like this. They would then not find it profitable to do so!

There was a really sad poem posted up some time ago, which was called Pet shop Puppy!

It is education of potential puppy buyers that is needed, so that no-one will buy from such people!!!!

Pet Shop Puppy

Hi all...just to let you know that a very nice lady is coming to see my pup tomorrow,we have spoken on the phone a few times now...she has a lovely bed for him,wants to know which food he likes and she loves walking and doesn't work...it is really worth holding out for the best possible home and getting out of awkward situations with potential owners when the right one comes along...and she said she would send me some piccys.
I will still cry my eyes out though!

i go to view the puppy i hope to buy next Sunday and i cannot wait.
Before getting this far i sent a very long winded email to the breeders regarding my house/job/family structure and times everyone would be at home.Told them where we lived,what we lived near etc and our Canine history.(think i bored them to be honnest).
I also invited them to vet my home at any point.
I still feel ( and rightly so ) that i have to convince them , im as nervous as i would be at a job interview because i do not "assume" that because i have the right money that i will be the right owner.
I am more than happy to walk away empty handed if im not right for the pup ( admittedly ill be sad!0 as if im not the right owner niether me or pup will benefit.
I still email and call the owners ( perhaps a little too often!) if i have any questions or query's and i hope that all is ok next Sun!
I feel that if the owners are right , then they will welcome being checked thouroughly before they cross the threshold.And if they dont welcome it......do they really have the pups best interests to heart?if they dont want to be checked for the pups sake , what else wont they do for it?

Hi again, When I posted It was really to help or clear up any worry.

We in the UK are really strong on some subjects but can be at times weaker on cival law.

I myself used to think If I walked into Homebase for example and there was a tin of paint witha 10 pound ticket on it then I had the right to buy it for ten pounds but this is not the case. As I said earlier a contract is made on the acceptance of the SELLER not the Buyer.

IT is worth remembering this and I hope sometime in the future it will help you out.
I know it has me.

Best of luck with your puppy.

Pam

Thanks to all of you who have replied...really glad to have the support and help from you all,it does help.
Think I will re-advertise the pup with a very carefully worded advert.

I have spent the day in the loft digging out my books from my A'level law course....I will read up & then repost later!!!!

Thanks very much Sam.

Might be out of date now Sam LOL :D
Gina !!

ha ha ha.....I am not THAT geriatric!

http://www.fraudbureau.com/articles/lawbeat/article3.html

Here is a link for anyone interested it is the first one I found in the 5 secs I searched on a search engine.

Sam this should help you save your time in the attic..What School did you go to that taught Contract Law at A-level age group..very good school.

But here it is in the flesh for those who need it.

If you read point 3. this should make it simpler think of it as a puppy and not walmart.

Regards to a

Pamela

PS This Law that I know of covers UK, USA, Australia, Canada. There may be others but never studied any other contries LAW

This whole subject came up recently in connection with an advert on the internet for a Kodak digital camera - the item was wrongly priced & the company were inundated with orders for these "cheap" cameras. At first, the company tried to stand by the basic principle that the advert was just an "invitation to treat" & so they did not have to honour the orders but in the end they backed down & fulfilled all the orders at the cheap price (they had to as automatic confirmation of orders had been sent out which did not make it clear that a contract was not intended) As with all things legal, the law in practice is often quite different to the theory :-) English contract law has also been modified over the years by various pieces of consumer legislation/regulations so although the basic principles still hold true there's a whole lot more to consider usually. One of my final year subjects as a law student was Consumer Law so if I have time, I'll check my text books & see if I can come up with anything else on this subject.

Jane

I didn't say that I did A'level law at A'LEVEL age......in fact I did it in my mid twenties, as a 2 year course, as a neccessity for my work. It covered contract/criminal/tort etc. But yes, I did go to a good school as well!

I did A'Level law at college and studied contract, criminal and European law. Mind you that was in the days when I thought I wanted to be a lawyer - I soon came to my senses!!!

Fiona
x x x

Yes but the reason they backed down as gave cameras away at that price was because it could affect the customer future sales. Bad publicity.

I can 100% assure you all it still stands 100% I have just graduated Houours in Law and it is current and up to date. My work involves me in business contracts everyday.

I really only posted the information to help the girl selling the dogs and also to help anyone else if the future who felt pressurised about this myth not to be challenged on it or fall out with anyone.

Big companies only back down because they want people to see what "a good company they are" and thats the only reason.

Anyone refering to Law books older than 3 months don't waste your time. The Law books are updated as much as 6 times a YEAR.

Anyay I hope Kays puppy goes to a nice home and anyone elses in the future.

regards Pamela

Pamela your input is much appreciated. Sure helps to know there is a legal beagle there with up to date info for us :D

Maybe you could look at the thread about puppy contracts and tell us what you think!

I am one of these people who want to avoid being overly legalistic when selling puppies, as I would hope that they become extended family, but want to have something that lays out a statement of intent!

I was only thinking last night how lucky my husband and I were to have been allowed to take our GSD home. When we went to purchase him I was pregnant and told the breeder this. He looked so happy yesterday (three and a half years on), stretched out in our front garden lying paw in paw with his wife (Kiera the Mal) whilst our daughter Lauren, three next week, played around them. I don't think that all couples should be 'writen off' from having a puppy because they have children.
A family environment can be great for a puppy as long as the parents educate and supervise the children. There were two labs in my family when I was born and I have grown up with great love and respect for dogs.
Lauren is the only person that can get Kiera to do a perfect stack just by saying "Stand" :D
Naomi

I don't think that young Families should be immediately written off either, Naomi, but surely, you do realize that your views & experiences are the exception & not the rule?
The majority of parents of young children have no idea how difficult it can be to have a puppy & a baby at the same time. They have a vision of the "perfect setting with children & young dog merrily playing together" without any difficulties. Seriously, I have heard so many new fathers...and some mothers, who talk about wanting their own pup "so it can grow up with the baby." Ha! Dog matures faster than baby & soon there are problems when reality impacts hard against the fantasy picture.

I"m not saying that no young family should ever have puppies. Just have serious considerations & realizations prior to placements.

Most US shelters do not allow puppies to be adopted into houses with children under the age of 5. They also review adults being adopted as a case by case basis if there are child/children under 3. I can't blame them for not wanting to see the dog be returned due to what might have been foreseeable problems.

I think the most amusing incident that I ever heard of placing a child & an animal together without understanding reality was one that my mother told me about. One 30 something newly weathly woman approached my mom & her horse one day. She wanted to know how much a pony cost. She intended to buy one for her 4 year old daughter so they could "grow up together." Somehow she thought that ponies were babies and eventually developed into horses. :D :D :D She wasn't happy when my mother politely told her that a 4 year old owning a horse and not having adult supervision with it would be a disaster. Apparently, the woman thought the two would "play" nicely together in the back yard, or something????
toodles

Obviously having children and pups at the same time doesn't work for everyone. All I was saying was that it worked for me. I would not have it any other way. In fact all of my family have grown up with dogs from birth: brothers, parents and grand parents alike. A lot can depend upon the peoples experience with dogs. If your a first time dog owner then it's going to be a lot harder than if you have owned dogs for many years.
I didn't mean to start arguements over letting people with kids own dogs, I was just saying how happy I am with my family :)

Hi Naomi....you misunderstand... no arguments or upset feelings... just sharing :D I'm not one to talk either. I've had pets around me since I was in diapers...but they were never "my" pet. They always bonded to one of my parents, much to my early disgust :D

i have a 3 and 5 yr old.We are soon getting a pup (fingers crossed for next weeks viewing!).I have allways been around dogs , kids too and i think if you have that kind of background then its second nature ( as long as you expect the unexpected).I dont antisipate that all will be perfect,i know that there will be poo , wee and plenty of it...not helped by my 3 yrs olds facination of it either!i know things will be chewed , ruined etc,and yes i will get upset.But i am going into it with my eyes open , i have done it before so im not just quoteing text.And there really isnt much left to ruin after two kids and three cats!
Zoe x

I had my first dog when my daughter was a year old, and when she died suddenly, at 3 1/2, I had my first elkhound, and my son was just 14 months. I am a lone parent, but was committed to dog ownership, and with the second new what it would be like.

I have in the past had to dissuade several would be puppy purchasers who were unrealistic about what dog ownership and children entail.

I also have homed a pup with a lovely family who had thought every thing our, but in the event, the pup was more of a handful than could have been predicted, and with a young family, became too much for them at that time. They now have an adult of another breed of similar activity levels, and are finding two years on, things are much better.

It is hard to make up ones mind if people with a busy family life willl cope with the challenge of puppy ownership, and some choose to err on the side of caution!

I too have graduated in law & whilst bad publicity certainly was a factor in the decision by Kodak it wasn't the only one :-) Had they inserted a get-out clause in their automatic confirmation of order emails, they could have stood their ground - many online companies do use such get-out clauses in their order confirmations, making it clear that the emails do not constitute an official "acceptance". This aspect of the Kodak decision has been well discussed in the press & on various websites.

I agree that the general principles of contract law still hold true but it is a fact that they have been modified by subsequent legislation & case law eg the old "caveat emptor" principle of the common law no longer applies to consumer contracts.

I'm not disagreeing with your advice but still think Westie Lover's approach is the best way to go as it leaves no room for doubt & everyone knows where they stand - you also tend to attract the sort of buyer that expects to be "vetted" rather than the spur of the moment type who think they can just turn up & take away a puppy, no questions asked.

Jane

Jane,

We seem to have went away off the tangent here, but being a legal junkie that I am I feel I am being pushed into a corner here and have to reply. Now whilst I am have not followed the Kodak case or even went and had a look at it my understanding which reinforces what I said at the beginning is that;

The outcome of the Kodak case was nothing to do with the advertising or prices etc although the press may have zoned in on this.The KEY point that came from the case was that orders were being made on the Web " OFFER" by customer and then a computer generated reply was being sent to the customer acknowledging the order the "ACCEPTANCE" this is where the problem came as this acknowledgement represented the legal Acceptance which completes the contract.

The 2 points I think the courts published were:

1. Had the Company acknowledgement not been sent as an automatic reply to the customer "Acceptance" there would have been no contract and the Company would have not been liable for any of the sales.

However customers prefer acknowledgement e-mails so;

2. The court advised that all Cyber companies put "exclusion clauses" in the contract to eliminate liability where there is genuine error and set down internet guidelines.

If the courts were as bad as some think then the fact there were contracts made the court could have insisted that Kodak provided the goods but as there was a genuine error then the contract could have been made void.

Kodak knew if they didn't come up with the good even though there had been a genuine error they would be doomed for future sales so I believe they stumped up of thier own choice.

What most have you have to remember there are 2 sides to every story and generally what is published are one sided.

Kind regards.

pamela

I am not a breeder but have spent many years in rescue. One of the best ways to vet people is to visit them in their home without the dog. Have a look at the garden, is it secure? etc where would the dog be staying? are the children complete brats? I always go with my gut instinct and if there are any niggling thoughts or worries then I will find no hesitatation to say "no". At the end of the day it is the dogs welfare which is paramount and not the persons feelings. Yes it is time consuming travelling to peoples homes but it pays dividends. If after the visit you are quite happy with them, then invite them over to view the pups. You will find it is less embarrassing doing it this way!

I think it is really hard for all parties now. We have good breeders and bad breeders , good owners and bad owners but I think if you can trust your own instinct then that is the best freind you have. I agree with the comment of extended families. It must be nice for a breeder to keep in touch with his/her pups.

Some people have no kids but have an active social life which may be worse than a family of 6 at home. I don't breed so I can't share the fear of selling pups but I can imagine.

I know that a lot of people don't like owners to work full time and I probably agree with this as it is hard to juggle things.

I however, work full time and also have 2 dogs..in fact always had a dog..wait for...but I walk both my dogs in the morning for about 20-30 mins 8am ish ( WESTIES), I go home at lunch time again 20-30 mins. 1pm ish, Hubby is home at 4 pm he says he walks them everyday but I think that is to the local and back LOL... When I came in the door at 6pm they are sitting waiting on me. Walks is the first thing to happen..It is my unwind.. I spend my life walking with them but I love the peace.

By Friday I am convinced my dogs know it's friday they have me 24 -7 for the whole weekend.

I'll have a look at the puppy contract but I can tell there are a few strong characters on the board..so my only comment probably will be is to keep it clear and simple and don't ties yourself into long winded complicated contracts that can fire back on yourself. A court will genarally always favour a good breeder regardless.

Nice to have been in on the topic. I generally have a good read but don't post.

I 'll blame SAM ;-)

regards

Pamela

So - people with children under 5 aren't suitable to have dogs....people who are working full-time aren't suitable to have dogs....lots of women go back to work when the children start school.....around 5....so who is left to actually own a dog? The retired?... but they might spend their time going on exotic holidays...or become disabled, or die..... so how do breeders remain sane???
Cathy.

Hi Cathy,
My best argument for those that you listed, --- instead of trying to raise a puppy, rehome an adult dog. They aren't babies and don't need to be treated as carefully :D Many are just glad to have a home & are perfectly happy to laze around on their own all day.

Most everyone believes that the perfect dog for a family should start out with a young puppy, but they have no idea how much time & work that baby really needs to grow up. Seriously, would you think that someone who is away daily from 8-10 hours can really be the best owner for a 2 month old?

There are so many dogs out there that need homes that are 6 months and up. They can be great pets too. Sure there are those that have problems, but others need new homes because the household has changed -- divorce, mandatory moving, death, disability, nursing home, family & dog just don't fit one another. All I'm saying is that don't be so quick to be in favor of the cute puppy. (I love them too).

When I volunteered at a shelter, I was helping a woman pick out a dog. She was trying to decide between a 10 week old male golden retriever and about a 2 year old trained female golden retriever-- owner had become allergic. (both were required to be altered). She had told me about her household & I thought she should go with the bitch. Nope, she set her eye on the male puppy because, "I don't want a large dog and she's too big and too old for me." She didn't seem to get it that the male would likely grow up to be larger than the female. Now, if she just preferred him, that was one thing, but to use the bitch's size against her????

Oops, I rambled, but this is a firm pet peeve of mine!! :D
toodles

I was under the impression that most rescue people won't rehome dogs to people with under 5's either! So an adult dog isn't necessarily the answer with young families - in fact the main reason we have decided on a puppy next year rather than another rescue dog is because we now have grand-children and we want to ensure that the puppy is socialised with children from the start.
We were very lucky with our late lamented and much adored rescue dog, who was very good with children, but if we had known that the offspring were about to start producing just after we got him, we would have definitely had second thoughts. The excuse given to the shelter by the previous owners was that they had to give him up because they had had a baby.
However, who knows whether the reasons given to shelters are true? Some people will give up a dog who has been aggressive to humans without saying so - and is it really possible to be 100% certain of temperament in the shelter environment?
Also, is it not fairly common for rescue dogs to suffer more from separation anxiety because of the difficult backgrounds many of them have experienced? So they may not always be ideal for people who are working either.
All in all, puppy or adult, taking on a new dog is an enormous responsibility. Perhaps, in addition to teaching school children about responsible child-care, we should be incorporating information about responsible pet ownership too. Pity the national curriculum is so full already.....:( :( :(
Cathy

eoghania, this was meant to be "tongue in cheek" i.e. who is actually left in today's society eligible to have a puppy? Of course I wouldn't suggest anyone working full time should take on a puppy!!!!
Cathy.

Ah,.... needed some smileys there, my dear, or a couple of smirks to indicate that you were being a tad facetious ;) I was thinking you were, but then again, you never know from these bland boards
Of course, I warned that it's one of those subjects that gets my goat, especially when many of the people around me have been brainwashed that a puppy is like a car --- a must-have possession :D

Besides, I have no life at the moment, so why not go on a rant to kill some time? :D
toodles