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Topic Dog Boards / Health / BEST AGE TO SPAY A GSD
- By gaby [gb] Date 30.12.04 10:46 UTC
My GSD is 12 months old and would like some advice from any experienced GSD owners. We wish to spay her as we have no intention of breeding not being a very good example of the breed. She is hyperactive on lead agressive and has been constantly under the vet with skin problems and cystitus. Being hyperactive makes her impossible to handle because she can't go out so we would like to have her spayed as soon as its advisable.
- By Wolfie [gb] Date 30.12.04 11:09 UTC
My GSD bitch was spayed at 14 months old and three months after her previous season.

Please be aware that spaying your girl might not help with the agression or hyperactivity. My girl is as still as scatty as ever. GSD's need lots of socialisation with other dogs. Have you thought about taking her to training classes?
- By Glenmoray [gb] Date 30.12.04 12:40 UTC
I think you need to change your vet and get to the rout of the problem. Spaying will not help your girl with her problems just now, but will protect her from various cancers later in life.
She needs ot have this skin problem sorted, the cystitis cleared up and to be taken to a training class as soon as possible.
I was once told by a behaviourist that lowering the protein in some dogs diets can calm them down a little. Dont know if things changed anyway or if it was the change in diet but it worked for me. Maby try lowering her protein intake to 18%? The skin problem could be anything from dust mite allergy to stress.
I cant imagine having to live with a dog with so many problems.
Was it you who brought her up from a pup? If so you will have to get her re-trained asap, as she is she is a danger to other people and dogs in this state.
I hope you mamage to sort her soon, Good luck!
GM
- By gaby [gb] Date 30.12.04 12:57 UTC
My GSD has been to classes and got her rosette and cert for puppy assesement. She did not display on lead agression in class. Too many dogs to single one out I suppose. She then started with her health problems following her first heat. It has taken the vet 4 months to sort her skin problems out. We have now at last finished all medication and had negative results to her skin tests. All this time she could not attend class in case she passed her problem on to others. Now we have to decide wether to go to one to one training or a behavourist. Both routes extremely expensive, £222 for a 2-3hour home session followed by written report and advice for the behavourist or £30.00 an hour for one to one with a trainer. Just don't know which way would be best or if it is likely to be of any use at this late stage. Any advice welcome.
- By Glenmoray [gb] Date 30.12.04 13:10 UTC
Its a risk you take when you take on a dog unfortunately. One of my dogs cost in excess of £2500 to be re-trained, vet checked, put on medications, changind diet etc etc. I made sure he got all the care he needed as im sure you will for your girl.
Be very careful where you get your trainer from. Either take the advice of the vet if he knows of a good trainer in the area, or contact some of the various organisations that register qualified behaviourists and trainers.
Im afraid you are in for a very long, tiring expensive journey on this one.
I wish you all the luck in the world and hope you both come through ok.
GM
- By Moonmaiden Date 30.12.04 13:28 UTC
Depending on where you live there may be a branch of the BAGSD near you who are a single breed training club & all the people will have experience of GSDs & there may well be someone who has gone through all the problems you now have,

At her age I would spay her as soon as possible if you do not wish to breed from her.

Are you 100% sure she is lead aggressive(whatever that means-I presume she is barking at dogs whilst on lead) GSDs can be very noisy especially when they are going through the Keven  stage & many behavourists & trainers see this as aggression rather than a part of the breed which can be worked through. Unless the person who you employ has experience of GSDs behaviour as young dogs they will not be of much real use. I see a lot of GSDs(via our rescue)that are alleged dog aggressive which are nothing of the sort they have simply never been taught manners-they learn manners from their mother to start with & then their new owners & as they are very intelligent dogs they have to have boundaries set & you have to be really consistant(same goes for a lot of working breeds like BCs, Dobes etc)

I would have a word with the trainers at the club you were attending for some private time with some "stooge"dogs & experienced handlers to see what her "problem"if anything really is

I've have only had GSDs since 1958 & have had few problems with dogs I have had from puppies, but have trained lots of dogs that haven't had correct training & socialization they need to be a happy confident member of the canine community
- By gaby [gb] Date 30.12.04 13:55 UTC
My dog lunges, barks and growls at every dog we pass on lead even if their on the other side of the main road. At the moment I'm just about able to hang on but she's still growing. If we are in the park and she encounters other dogs she will race up to her safe distance crouch down and look and then approach at full speed. If the other dog is willing she will play chase untill she's worn out no barking or growling. She has been taken out twice a day since we got her (8 weeks old) both in the park and along shopping areas. We also go camping all summer every weekend and she always comes along. I fail to see how I could have done more. When she is barking and growling she is so wound up that any instruction that I give is tally ignored. In any other situation she will sit,stay and lie down when told to do so. Any advice that you think would help would be appreciated. Walks are no longer a pleasure but an ordeal.
- By Moonmaiden Date 30.12.04 14:20 UTC
It could have been something you didn't see that has made her react & warn dogs off whilst on lead & it could be that she sees her role as protecting you against the other dog whilst she is attached to you by the lead, which is were the stooge  or non reactive dogs come in.

Does she display this behaviour with other people have her on the lead ? that is someone other than your immediate family ? If she doesn't or you have never allowed anyone else to handle her this is were your trainer or other handlers could help away from the club & off your property. If it is only when with you or with your family that she displays this behaviiour you have a key to the reason she is behaving this way

I would certainly have a word at your club & see if they can set up some safe encounters for you. One thing you should try is not reacting at all & having someone else with you to distract her. I took back a dog that had gone to a show kennels & because he hadn't made it to show quality at 6 months had been left in a kennel with a dog aggressive male champion. So the puppy had learnt to be dog aggressive from the adult, when I got him back the first thing he did was attack my older dog(who was totally 100 % bombproof)by grabbing him by the neck my dog did not react & his mane coat protected him from harm. I obviously separated them. I then devised a training program wihich had my older dog on lead with a handler & me with the puppy on lead we approached each other & passed on the handler side on the sign of any aggression we both about turned & walked away, we then had one dog in the down & the other approach again on any reaction from the puppy & resulted in the approaching dog being about turned & walked away, no reaction & both dogs were treated & fussed. It took about a week of several training sessions a day to re educate the puppy & I of course was lucky that my older boy was a perfect stooge dog, they ended up the best of friends & after doing Schutzhund training with the younger boy he had an outlet for his drive & protection. He was always 110% with people & once trained he was non reactive to other dogs whilst being worked or trained or simply walked(part of the schutzhund training)

I have a feeling that she had no problem at the dog club because most of the dogs would not react to her because they were being worked & was probably not been receiving any eye contact or threatening body langauge from them, which is why I suggest that you ask the club for help away from the training club

It is difficult to advise over the net about behaviour problems as I cann't see the way your dog is reacting(eg bum up & head down & barking is not threatening in a GSD it is an invitation to play ! Whereas in a BC it can be aggressive  but also might also be an invitation to play as well)

You could try using a head collar & ordinary collar to give you more control over her
- By gaby [gb] Date 30.12.04 14:59 UTC
She does not do the play bow she just goes rigid with hackles up. Then of course she rears up fighting against my tight hold on the lead.
The only people that handle her are immediate family usually only husband or myself. My husband manages to force her into a sit by manhandling but I'm not able to do this.
She is already on a Halti but still manages to pull and lunge. She hates the Halti and still tries to paw it off even though we have been using it for 6 months. Without it on I would not be able to hold her at all.
My daughter has a friend who breeds GSD's for the Police Force and she says my dog is a bully so I'm inclined to think its not just protecting me. My dog spent 3 weeks with this lady whilst I was away on holiday. She tried to give her some play time with one of her pups of the same age. She said my dog had hers pinned to the ground and so would not allow any further play.   
- By Moonmaiden Date 30.12.04 15:29 UTC
That person might breed GSDs but it does not mean she knows how to socilaize them, for a start you do not instigate play with a strange dog of the same age, which I again stress you need a stooge dog for ie an Older experienced dog who is trained not to react to other dogs attacks. If you did not see the situation I presume it was on her property & again I stress this should be done away from your property & the other dogs property & the training club. Dogs are not "bullies"that is a human term.

It is important to have a collar & a halti with a lead attached to both for safety

I must again stress that you will need to see how she reacts with someone out of your family on the other end of the lead & not this breeder of police dogs who IMHO has no idea how to deal with a dog that needs positive encounters with other dogs on neutral ground. If you are not willing to take on board my suggestions that is up to you & she is your dog so whether or not you pay some behavourizt an excessive fee to "treat"the problem it is up to you
Topic Dog Boards / Health / BEST AGE TO SPAY A GSD

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