My mum's 3 and half year old lab suddenly had a turn which may be a fit about a month ago, and then again last Friday.
He pants very quickly, his legs go stiff and he staggers about unable to bend his legs to sit and appears frightened.  This lasts for about 20 to 30 minutes and after the effects stop he seems very subdued, clingy and exhausted.
After the first episode the vets did blood tests which were clear and now suggest he goes for a brain scan at a special centre.
Has anyone seen something like this?

Possibly an epileptic fit although the dog is a little old for the usual hereditary epilepsy. It could have any number of other causes though including poisons or accidental damage.

Another possibility which your vet may not be aware of is Cramping Syndrome. It's correct name is "Canine Epileptoid Cramping Syndrome" and has been seen in both Border Terriers and Labradors in the UK. There are subtle differences in the appearance of the "Fit" but the big difference is that it does not respond to any of the drugs used to control Epilepsy.

Regards, John
 

Sounds as if it could be John.  Is your dog aware of what is going on?  if he is its a sure sign.  Look here http://www.borderterrier-cecs.com   you can view pics and videos and also get cd's for yourself and your Vet to look at.
Dawn.

Thanks to you both for replying. My mum has just registered but hasn't yet recieved a password, so I will answer for her!!
Her labrador is aware of what's going on at the time. The first time it happened they phoned the vet while BJ was having this turn, and the vet told them to leave the room and let him calm down. when they went to leave him he was terrified and panicking. There are no signs of aggression during these turns. He now licks his back legs (if for example he slips or skids on the floor) as if he thinks it may happen again.
He has  been eating windfall apples lately and they are often full of wasps! Could this be related?
Thankyou.

I would doubt the Apples or wasps have anything to do with it. PLEASE look at that link, and get your mom to aswell, you NEED to establish if CECS could be the problem.  You can get cd's of Labs cramping, I can lend them to you if you want to, BUT don't let Vets get invasive if they don't need to be.  NO Epilepsy drugs will help your dog if it is CECS, in fact they can harm him.  This disease can be controlled to a good degree, only in the last few months has a Lab I have boarded for 3yrs who was supposedly epileptic, been diagnosed with CECS.  She is off all drugs now and is so much better.  Most Vets have not heard of it, so please make yours aware.

Good luck and keep us informed.
DAwn

Thanks Dawn. I'm passing this on to mum as she's still struggling to register at the moment! Password problems I think!! I'm sure she'll be in touch as soon as she can log in.

I'm just going out now but I'll come back to you later about Epilepsy in Labradors.

Regards, John

Being told to leave the dog in a darkened room is pretty much standard practice. It is even the recommended practice in Phyllis Croft's booklet "The Management of Epilepsy in Dogs" and in a lot of cases is the best way. Dogs are often extremely agitated at this time and could bite out of terror. But dogs are all individuals with their own traits, temperament and feelings and what suits one does not suit them all. My own Bethany was another who used to get into a panic if left but as long as she could feel us she would settle. I always had the feeling that the contact reassured her and made her feel safe.

You say the fit lasts for 20 to minutes. In actual fact the time of unconsciousness is quite short lasting only a few minutes, the recovery time is the longest phase. A dog recovers by degrees with sight seeming to be one of the last parts to recover. I used to talk to Bethany whilst I held a paw or head and would try to sooth her. This seemed to have the effect of keeping her down for as long as possible which gave her time to recover more before getting up.

Fits usually happen whilst the dog is relaxed, often whilst asleep so it is possible that she has fitted one or even more times without you knowing. Because the fits usually happen whilst the dog is relaxed you will rarely if ever have problems whilst out. After being epileptic from 18 months until her death at a couple of weeks under 14 year she never in all that time fitted when out. (And just once in the car.) If you realise that a fit is coming, and given time you quite possibly spot the signs, you can sometimes work it out of her. I used to take Beth out into the garden with a toy and play. The excitement of the game would often bring her out of it without it ever developing into a full fit.

Bethany was never too much trouble (Even though she was a born trouble maker who had the nickname BBB, Big Bad Bethany!) and if I had to rank my dogs was my all time favourite. You can live quite happily with the epileptic dog once you have accepted the fact that it happens. I know we all start out thinking that it is the end of the world but it's not!

Regards, John

Thankyou for your help. BJ had another 'turn' on Sunday morning, and they managed to video some of it, so BJ is off to the vets again tomorrow, along with the video footage! Hopefully the vet may have more of an idea of what's happening.
Thanks again.

Hi,
Mum has been to see the specialist. I was wondering if it would be possible to speak to Dawn B regarding the findings?
Are you there Dawn?!

I've no doubt Dawn will see this shortly, in fact I'll make sure she does.

Regards, John

Hi there, I have sent a message to you S. Rowe.
thanks John! :D
Dawn.

Hi John,

Have spoken to Dawn this evening and put my mum (BJ's owner) in touch.

Thanks for your help:-)

Saria.

You are more than welcome Saria. I hope things go well for your mother's Labrador.

Best wishes, John