How do you all go about the sit and stand ?  With Fagan I taught him to sit and stand at the same time (if you know what I mean ;) ) and when he was small he would sit when i want him to stand at ringcraft :rolleyes: although I think he has the hang of it now he still sits when the judge starts going over his body.  With the new pup im wondering whether I should only teach him to stand at first until he has it spot on?

I hope you get what I mean ( )

Claire :)

It's purely Stands untill 6 mths in this house, after that we will introduce the sit.  However they would have been going to their ob. classes for extra socilisation, but I tell the trainers everything at the moment is stand untill I say otherwise!  Then I will slowly introduce the sit, while still doing plenty of stands.  Seems to work this way.  Also keep the tone of voice different for each command and maybe introduce hand signels!

Also try not to teach pup to sit by using hand contact!  A friend started to make this mistake and as soon as the judge touched them they would sit as this is what they were taught!  So try not to use any contact, if you never did with fagen then that is fine!!! :)

Good luck with pup!

I've done both in the past.With my first 2 elkies it was stand only till about 6 months.With the youngest hes been doing both from day one and its made no difference.Dogs can learn more than one command at a time and if clear commands are given it shouldn't be difficult.
Archer

It is easier for "novice"handlers to teach the conformation behaviour first then obedience once the conformation trining is done, must confess I do both togethertho'

I do both together too.  As I do obedience and show I have had too, but it works I have never had a problem.  They soon learn the difference and my body is in a different position for the stand to the sit so they pick up on that too.

Sandra

Delta only knows *stand*, when I want her to sit I gently put pressure on her bum and I don't generally say anything ...I will teach her *sit* when she is a bit older...she is 7 months at the moment :)

At our Obdience training classes we *have* to place our hand on the dogs rear (not with pressure) when doing the sit, I think this is why Fagan sits when being gone over by the judge (either that or he is trying to hide his singular testicle )  At the moment Little Alf sits and waits for his dinner and he will stand and sit for a treat but I think I may concentrate on the stand and just remind him every now and then what a sit is ;)

I think it is the combination though of teaching them the word *sit* and the pressure (if you touch, then there is pressure ) , we don't say anything ...so she doesn't realise that we are asking her to do anything. She has had no problems at shows so far :)

Sorry, I meant pressure as in force :)

BB This could well be the way (and knowing setters....mine are the same and are very cleaver of knowing everything and using it to be the biggest pains going!!!! or is it just mine?)

Just because your trainer tells you to do something, doesn't mean its the best way for you and your dog!  Tell them you don't want to put any physical pressure on the dog and give the reasons.  I have often told my trainners how I was going to train my dogs, because I was never going to do Obedience competitions I never wanted "perfect" obedience, so I made sur ethe trainners knew this and I had a dog that walked to heal, sat, laid & stood still, came when was called and was well behaved (we are still talking about setters so food was involved!) and everything was done, but nothing ob perfect!

>(we are still talking about setters so food was involved!)

your Setters must be different to mine then, Fagan isnt interested in food at all, at training he would rather pull me all over the place to sniff than look at the tasy treat I have for him, and at home he thinks you are poisoning him if you give him a bowl of food - he looks seriously anorexic at the moment but there is nothing I can do he only eats enough to feed a cat :(

Have you tried a variety of different treats? I use a bum bag and have a mixture of sausage, cheese and liver cake so that Delta doesn't know what will come out next, keeps her interested

4 Years ago we got Savannah, our first show dog.  As I was worried about sitting in the ring we didn't push the 'sit' training at home.  Now, at 4 years, she CAN sit, but she hates it and won't.  With the new pup (6 months now) she was actually a 'sitter' from day one.  She learned from the other two to sit to get things, so we worked on making sit and stand different.  She hasn only been in one show, but we've been doing lots of ring training and clicker training with her for standing and being gone over, so she doesn't seem to be confusing the two.  I think in future I will do the same as I don't want another dog who won't sit.

Wendy

This is one reason why I use hand signals as well as a vocal command. A showdog will ignore pressure on the back end when a judge runs his hands over it because the handler won't be reinforcing the pressure with either vocal or signal comand to sit.

Clicker :D  Works for me!  I taught the stand using the clicker - coax the dog up from a sit (with a bit of liver,) then click when the stand is achieved.  Once it is being offered add the voice command of stand.  I have even used the clicker/treat for a stand at exemption shows
Sarah