I posted this in the visitor section but now ive joined i thought i would get more replys here.

can some body please tell me the differences between the two ie looking at
. Weight
. Height
. Build
. Aggresion
. Price
. Blood Lines

also i have read many threads where people have said that ISBT are not a pedigree dog and not recognised but i found this? S.I.B.T.C (Staffordshire and Irish Bull Terrier Club) and many IBST puppies up for sale with KC registration

Archer said
Just because there is a club for a type of dog does not mean it is a recognised breed.
The ISBT is not a recognised breed in the UK
Archer

Why are they not recognised in the uk, as they are from ireland are they recognised there, what about usa recognised there.

Is it true that in the ISBT line greys( blue) are much easier to find

Thank you for any help as it will help me in my choose my puppy (i really want a grey (blue) staffie

As the British Kennel Club doesn't recognise the ISBT as a breed, there can be no ISBTs with British KC registration. The KC doesn't register breeds it doesn't recognise.

is it recognised by any country, body in the world.

could you answer any of my first question for me as i researching at the moment the puppy i want to buy, its going to be one or the other and either blue or red, hope blue

I havent a clue who they are recognised by all i know is they are longer legged and slightly leaner and you will probably pay more for a isbt

I noticed that comparing prices the ISBT was 100-200 pound more than the SBT to buy, why if there not recognised   

ISBT are recognised by the ISF but i am not going to make my feelings public with regards to what i have heard about this registery.

Doubt that you would pay more than £400 for a quality Irish Staff, if you pay more for a blue, or pied then you are being ripped off purely because of the colour and nothing else, a rare colour dont always mean you are getting a quality dog.

Sorry what does ISF stand for and does that mean it is a pedigree dog

I noticed the blues are more money, its just ive fell in love with that colour me best mates dad got SBT blue and shes every thing i want in a dog

They are a breed in their own right, but without getting any recognition for them Uk Kennel Club, the ISF is the Irish Staffordshire Federation :)  I have heard about this registery, and not good :( but not going into it on a public message board.

If you have seen a blue sbt and that is everything you want maybe concider one of those then you have a KC reg dog that is more likely to of had the breed health tests than a isbt and will probably be alot cheaper and easier to find.

I can not get hold off a blue SBT my mates dad was just luckly in that the puppies he went to look at had a blue one and he bought it i think 400, wish i was him

i carnt get hold of one, i have been trying my mates dad got luckey he went to buy a red SBT but when he arrived the litter contained a blue so he bought that one insted for around 400. wish i was him

IS there any chance the ISBT would be recognised any time soon or is the supposed link with pit bulls always going to stop this

I own a breed that is not recognised by the kennel club, and i own breeds that are.  Just because they are recognised with a different registery other than the kennel club, does not make them any less of a dog.

I doubt the Irish Staff will be recognised any time soon by the Kennel Club, as long as you have a nice dog, and you are happy, does it really matter which registery recognises them as a breed?

The blues are more money because greedy people are breeding them, i wouldnt pay any more for a blue than what i would for a white dog :)  If you do you are being ripped off by people that have no thought for the breed itself only the pound signs before their eyes.

This is why i dont have a blue pup right now im not willing to go above 400-450 the ones ive seen have been 700-800

There are dedicated people who breed Irish Staffs, they DO have pedigree paperwork stating exactly what they are.

Whoops, that was ment as a pm.

Thank you for the website and all the help

I havent heard anything anywhere about them being registered they do look like the typical pitbull image and there is a chance they could be mistaken as one and you'd have no paperwork to prove otherwise. Go find a nice waggie tail happy to please SBT and then you arnt helping fund the money making dog users

So of the two the difference is that the SBT is shorter legged less defined but registered and the ISBT is longer legged more defined but not registerd, not much difference in body shape then

Why is the colour of a dogs coat more important to you than its health and temperament? You seem hell bent on a blue pup, why?
Dawn.

of course health and temperament are important but i fell in love with the blue colour coat and when combined with white chest and feet you just carnt beet it

Probably the same reason someone would want a Blue Roan Cocker, or a Chocolate Lab, its called choice, and we all have one :)

Its like my prefrence in GSPs is B/w im not to taken by the liver and white atal id wait until i got a b/w with all the health tests. So if your really serious about the blue e-mail a few sbt breeders ask if they have any pups or litters planned that may be expecting a blue.

the places ive looked so far for blue SBT and ISBT are on the internet in magazines etc havent talked to any breeders yet.
That what im going to do next, hope i can find a breeder in lincolnshire area but will travel whole country to get one

good luck in finding one let us know when you do and feel free to ask for any advise if you need it,

Ok i will and thanks for the help

hi...a friend of mine has a litter of 5 pups...1 of which is a blue..there 6weeks old all the pups are the same price 500pound...both parents are show sbts...if your interested i think the blue is for sale...her kids wanted to keep the blue,but as she wants to keep a pup to show she is keeping a black one instead...email me if you want phn number ect...good luck...id hate to think some one was going to pay ridiculous ammount of money just because pup is blue....good luck jayne.xx

Just checked that website all the dogs are black so im guesing that blues must be like whites, they just pop up every so often

right off to bed now to think it all over will respond in the morning

I would reccomend you are careful with your choice of breeder - unfortunatly there are a lot of x-breeds and Pit's that people are trying to pass of as ISBT'S.

I Myself have an ISBT Bitch and during a previous search for a stud was amazed by the amount of Pits that were offered and the lack of good males with suitable temprement and healh etc (which lets face it - is far more important than the colour of their coat).

Good luck in your search...

Andy

Actually Mollymoo its called "I got a rare coloured doggie" (which they are not, and often have poor quality coats)  I would think breeding, health and temperament came first, the colour of its coat is immaterial.  I board a blue ISBT and apart from its coat being very patchy, its temperament is highly suspect, but hey, the owners are chuffed with the colour of his coat!  We all have our "priorities" when buying dogs, seems mine and the original posters, differs greatly.
Dawn.

Actually its MollMoo :rolleyes: and we are all entitled to a choice to decide whatever floats our boat :)

OOPS!!!  sorry pardon for that HUGE mistake! 
Dawn.

:rolleyes:

The Irish Stafford IS just a Stafford but just bred along different lines.  If you go back far enough they all stem from the same dogs, some of the most notable Irish bred dogs can be traced right back to Gentleman Jim and contrary to what some people have said on here some strains remain KC registered to this day some very well known "Irish" dogs like Gr Ch Rocky were KC registered.   It just so happens that with other dogs KC registration was of little importance and although many dogs were registered to a point some breeders never bothered hence some are registered and some are not. 

They are registered with the KC as Staffords because they are just that - Staffords, there is no breed called the Irish Stafford its just a term that is used that refers to a long line of dogs that came from Ireland to the UK many years ago.   That is what people seem to make the mistake of on here, making out like its two separate breeds when in actual fact it is two variations of the same breed.  Generally the Old Type or Sporting dogs are taller, leaner and more muscular with the show type or modern type being shorter on the leg and very short in the nose but with a much wider head and usually stockier but less obvious muscular physiques than the other type.  I could go on about the variances and the history of the breed but I am sure its all been over time and time again so I will spare you all.

maybe thats what i see each day,a blue irish!!! its really leggy,thought it was a x!

irish staffs are tops! they are bigger, stronger and IMO better than normal staffs.
Ive had KC staffs and wouldnt go back to them, the Irish dogs are superiorin every way. :-)

Ps if the person wants a blue thats their choice. I wanted blues and had to search high and low to find ones of the breeding I was after but it was worth it cos theyre gorgeous and everyone that sees them thinks they are totally stunning. Good luck hope you find one :-)

No No No No No!  Irish bred Staffords are not necessarily taller, bigger or stronger, they just tend to be better balanced and therefore give a greater impression of height and imo look much better.   There is no evidence that they are any stronger than any other type of Staff how they perform (say at weightpull etc) is down to how much the owner puts in, I have been to alternative shows here in England for years and many a KC dog has knocked the block of "irish" type dogs in weightpull or a-frame competitions.

14" (irish) dogs are perfectly acceptable as long as they are able to do any task put in front of them and the weight ratio is correct, generally the prefered height is 17" for bitches and 18" for dogs which is no great height by any stretch of the imagination only 1" and 2" taller than the KC standard it is the weight ratios that are seen as more important therefore you may see a 14" dog but he will usually always be under 30lbs in weight to look at his best.  People seem to be under the impression that all these dogs have to be very tall, leggy and large when that is not the case at all.  There are certain strains that throw larger dogs quite consistently but imo a Staff should still be a Staff I dont like seeing them as tall as 20" and 21".

I dont think anybody was arguing on here the right for people to have a choice of colour in a dog, its the puppy peddlars who jump on the back of this and start selling their dogs at ridiculous prices.  Best of to always do as much research but also remember that good dogs come in all shapes sizes and colours.  A lot of blue dogs I have seen especially from the KK line which has been bred quite heavily, specifically for colour, have tended to look nice as pups but as they age the colour tends to become more "washed" looking to the point of a dull grey.  Sadly when you breed for colour this is what happens but it also disappoints people too.  The best blues I have ever seen have been unexpected blues from two parents who carry the gene but are not blue themselves.

YES YES YES they ARE bigger stronger and more athletic, I dont think 14" Irish dogs are acceptable and I think If you said that to stalwarts of the breed they would probably find it amusing as I do. :-)
We can agree to disagree of course, but Irish staffs are bred to be bigger stronger and fitter, fact.
As for the KK breeding, well I have seen some stunning KK bred dogs that didnt look the slightest bit wishy washy, so again, your not quite 100% right there!
I realise there are certain strains of Irish staff that run slightly lighter and smaller than others, but on the whole, the bigger dogs are more superior, now Im not talking huge blocky dogs, just the taller, leaner dogs which have the shape of a sporting APBT rather than an ugly pug-nosed barrel type staff you see so often nowadays.

No No No!  You cannot just say that a certain strain or line of staffords are stronger than the next teh only way you could prove that is if you tested all their strength  How do you know they are taller, some lines are taller than others fact.  I have seen a good few 14-16" very well bred "Irish" dogs they are no better or worse than the rangier dogs at 20", there is an old saying "its not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" you would do well to remember that, whilst not talking about fighting dogs it is in keeping with your post as it is very true.  You see the thing with these dogs is the height or weight does not matter as long as the dog can perfrom the task at hand, you go back 30 years and look at many of the old founding dogs which, for the most part, descended from old KC stock and they were all much smaller lots of great dogs were nothing much to look at.  The infusion of EBT and APBT blood added to the height and weight to certain lines and yes some dogs were certainly slightly taller.  You are not 100% right when you say the bigger dogs are superior, think of some great dogs and producers Gr Ch Duke, Ruby, Hagler none of which were big dogs in any way or much to look at......I could go on.  Psycho 18" dog by no means huge, slightly taller than the KC standard but not a huge dog.

I never said that ALL KK dogs were wishy washy what I did say (if you read it back properly) is that many of the KK dogs have been bred purely for their blue colour and in many instances this leads to a more "washy" colouring as the dogs age - that is a fact when you breed for one specific feature everything else begins to deteriorate.  Form should always follow function!!!!!!  Oh and I never said I was 100% right either just airing my opinions as I have the right to do.  I dont pretend to be an expert on the breed but I do have a fair bit of experience.

well, you have your opinion and Ill have mine. I have seen some very good dogs of all shapes and sizes and the majority of good dogs have been ABOVE the KC standard height which is BIGGER than a KC staff I never said they had to be 20"+ or whatever infact I didnt even bring specific heights into it, I said they are bigger, stronger and better. I will stick with this opinion, it is one I have formed from owning this type of dog for a long time and getting to know people who actually owned these dogs instead of reading a few books on the subject and then appointing myself and instant expert :-)

I agree with Illeach for the most part.  There is good and bad in all lines, one good mating doesn't neccessarilly produce a litter full of good pups.  There have been threads on blue Staffies in the past, I board a couple of Irish Staffs, and whilst one was only a puppy, the other a 3yr old male displayed a dreadful temperament, extremely unpredicatable and very quick to turn.  You know what the owners said?  "Its a rare blue one"  shame the emphasis wasn't put on the dogs ability to function in todays society, instead of the colour of its coat.  Now before you think I am anti Bull breeds, I am just the opposite, but I do think a LOT of people want a "cool" dog for the wrong reasons, the bigger the better etc.....  very sad.
Dawn.

fair enough dawn but you have to remember there are plenty of people who do want something thats a bit unusual and as for the temperament well I havent owned a staffy with a bad temperament, but maybe Im lucky? usually staffys have the best temperament you could ask for. :-)

I dont mind if breeders want to charge a lot of money for "rare" or unusual colours etc, it doesnt bother me, good luck to them is what I say, they are producing dogs to supply a demand and they are selling them for those prices so good luck to them, each to their own :-)

I respect your opinion because everybody is entitled to one and I am worldly enough to know that they are not always the same and people often have views different to myself.  I only draw on my own personal experience with the dogs which perhaps to some is not a lot (20 years) I was never one for reading books always liked to learn the hard way by going out and being around the dogs and old dogmen.  I did not say that you did specific heights into it - I DID.  If you had been in them as long as you say I am sure you would be wise enough to realise that making sweeping statements like they are all "bigger stronger and better" is slightly optimistic.  They may be in your opinion better which is fair enough but there is no way you can prove they are stronger - that just seems a silly thing to say - you may think they are all bigger but I can assure you they are not!

You do not base your point that they are all stronger on any kind of fact - if there is evidence to support this then please show me and I will gladly eat humble pie but until you show me such evidence then I will continue to believe as I always have done that no matter what type or strain most staffords if well balanced and agile are capable of great feats, strength is not something that Irish bred dogs are superior at - FACT.  Some years ago I watched a small well bred stafford (14" 26lbs) out pull some well known pulling champions pound for pound, this is not a one off, its like trying to say that all .  There is an old saying handsome is as handsome does you would do well to remember that.  I do not consider myself an expert by any stretch of the imagination nor do I appoint myself one I am merely sharing some observations.

I think we have crossed wires somewhere, I was not talking about dogs being strong in relation to weight pulling. I think this conversation has gone off at a tangent, I have no interest in weight pull whatsoever so I cant comment on which dogs are best at it, If you want to continue this discussion you can send me a message as these threads seem to get heated and then locked and I dont want to be a contributing factor to this one getting locked too