It is becoming very politically (and legally)  incorrect to reprimand children with a sharp slap - why?

Surely this is one of the best means of disciplining children at a young age and teaching them right from wrong - which is something so many seem to have a problem with.

My Mum always reckoned that I had more beatings (couple of hits with slipper or hairbrush as it hurt her hand) than all my brothers put together and I must admit to being a stubborn child on occasion :-) , but it has not done me any lasting harm and engendered a great deal of respect for her at the time.

I think its totally stupid!! The children that need protecting will still be beaten!! it will make no difference at all to the parents who abuse their kids
Archer

I am extremely against slapping, unless it would actually resolve an issue and stop it happening in the future.

My mum very rarely has ever hit me, last time was about 2 years ago (i am 16 now). When she hits me its such a shock I will never do it again!

My dad used to hit me for every little reason, whether or not it was justified - hit first ask questions later. As I got older it didn't happen as much, but it began to make me violent. He hit me, I hit him. Ended up there would be huge fights between me and him, mum now tells me he got a few people saying things to him if he hit me in supermarkets or whatever. Had to go to counsellor in the end as it was awful, would be huge brawls. And funny thing is, since he's stopped hitting me, there has been very few big rows, no violence, and a much better atmosphere in the house!

I don't see the need for it. None of my friends were slapped when they were younger, and none of them are spoilt, ungrateful, rude, whatever!

Char

I never hit my children, I have no need to. They are well behaved without it.

My mum smacked me - right up to the stage where I was big enough to wallop her back, which I did after she hit me with a saucepan. I flipped and hit her back with it. I had no respect for her for doing it - infact, I hated her for the red marks on my legs and the headaches from being clouted round the back of the head as a young child.

I hate to see parents smacking children. I find the naughty step a far more appropriate punishment.

I think there is a world of difference between a smack on the backside and being hit by a saucepan! To me that is assault and a matter for the police but an occasional smack on the backside? Maybe if more children had one we would not have children running around with knives and guns!

Regards, John

I don't see a huge amount of difference between a slipper or a hairbrush and a saucepan. They are all objects and its all dependent on the force used. My mum used at saucepan because a smack wouldn't have had the same effect (smacks had long stopped being shocking!) - I was about 12 at the time.

I wouldn't have been running around with knives and guns if I hadn't been smacked. I wasn't that type of child and I wasn't brought up in that kind of environment and neither will my children and I don't smack them. I happen to think that two wrongs don't make a right - how can you demonstrate that hitting another child is wrong (for example) by using a smack yourself?

<<I happen to think that two wrongs don't make a right>>

What two wrongs??? Are you saying that disapline as used by my parents, school teachers and the police of my era was wrong? It may be in your definition of right and wrong but not in mine.

Regards, John

So, if smacking is so necessary, why is it that whilst it is not allowed in my childrens school and is not allowed by our local police there is no violence, no bullying and no nastiness - certainly no more than there was in the past?

Could it be that smacking is not the cure for everything and its more the parents overall attitudes throughout the childs entire lives that are what shapes that child?

Do you really think that those parents whose children run riot don't don't smack and are all liberal hippy parents? I actually think those children that ARE violent are more likely to have come from parents who think a slipper, or a hairbrush is the normal way to behave. but thats just my opinion of course, based on having young children, at school, in the current times.

I do not intend getting into an argument with you AGAIN Carla. I have had my say, (As I am intitled) and will leave you to twist my words as you think fit.

Likewise John.

Chloe, I totally agree with you. If smacking wasn't that bad, then I'm sure the several councellors we've spoken to wouldn't have told my dad to stop smacking me NOW before one of us got hurt when I was strong enough to wallop him back! IMO him smacking me proved an excellent excuse to hit my sister when she annoyed me - if he did it, why couldnt I. Violence breeds violence, it doesnt solve it.

Char

Here Here John,

I very rarely smack my children, when they are bad they get there TV or computer games taken from them for a few day that works most of the time, if they are very bad then i will on the very rare occasion smack them and send them to there bedrooms,
I dont think it right for someone to be sent to court/prison if they just smack there child on the bottom,
if they beat them they need hanging :( but a tap on the bottom does not do anyone any harm and any normal parent knows the difference between a smack and a beating.

Heidi

The naughty step is a great thing - we used that many times. But it's not always available, and just as with dogs, any correction must be done at the time. The 'Wait till we get home' attitude is, IMHO, very wrong.

I feel a sharp slap is usually the quickest way to get across a message that could save a child's health or even life - a slap on the hand to knock it away from a hot cooker is far better than allowing the child to burn itself. I agree that hitting with an implement is wrong, and hitting certain areas of the body (heads are obviously no-hit areas). But a slap on the bottom or thigh will do no harm.

I once had the misfotune to witness the humiliation inflicted on a child whose parents didn't believe in smacking. The poor boy was yelled at, being called stupid and silly and unkind, for over two minutes at a busy picnic spot. He was in tears but his mother went on and on and on. It was incredibly cruel. His crime? He'd spilt his drink on her dress. I've never forgotten that and vowed I would never inflict such mental torture on anyone.

I also had the misfortune to be that child being swung round on the end of my arm being smacked on the back of the bare legs so hard it left a clear, red, stinging hand mark. Thats no better than verbal bullying IMO.

My parents never smacked us when we were young but my mum's method of punishment was far worse in my view.  If I did something she disapproved of she would simply withdraw all attention and communication. I'll never forget how it felt trying desperately to get her to start speaking to me again.

Fast forward 40 years and she's still doing it !

IMHO, smacking doesn't teach children anything. Where do you draw the line? a small slap when they are toddlers, then a harder one when they are primary school age because the small slap doesn't have the same impact and then full blown violence using god knows what when they are teenagers

I have actually seen children slapped very hard in public and when the kid says "didn't hurt" the parent then slaps a whole lot harder, swears at them, humilates them and then threatens something nasty when they "get them home"!!!! The irony of it all is, these are the kids that end up bullies and are reprimanded by their parents for walloping other children It's the one rule for you and one for me. I have got angry in the past with my daughter, she really was trying my patience as all kids do and I have had to go away from her and calm down so that I didn't do something that I would regret.

Eg, my daughter swore the other day when she hurt her finger and didn't think that anybody could hear, when I told her off for it she said "you swear if you hurt your self, so why is it ok for you and not for me?"
Point taken!!! I am no where near a perfect parent, but I think that you have to try and lead by example as much as you can, not "do as I say and not as I do". Perhaps that is the problem today, some parents don't know or care what is acceptable behaviour so they cannot instil these values into their own kids.

I suppose some parents don't realise that when a child says "didn't hurt" they're generally lying ...

Not only are they lying, but they know they've found a key to getting their parents attention.....How many of them get attention from their parents when they are behaving themselves?

Hairypooch I agree with you - members of this board in general dissaprove of using physical punishment on animals - what makes children so different?
I too was abused as a child - my parents believed sparing the rod spoilt the child.  They had two daughters, both of whom were adopted by them as babies.  My younger sister would take all the punishment they could dish out (and more) and grew into a rebelious teenager who bullied and lied and cheated her way through life.  I lost all confidence, had eating disorders and relationship problems with abusive partners......  Where did I learn all this?  From my parents behaviour towards me.  Phrases like 'Don't ever let me catch you doing that again!' and 'Wait till your Father gets home' were used commonly in our house - and only encouraged lying and deceipt. NEVER was I rewarded in anyway for being honest, just reminded that the punishment I was receiving was a lot less than I would have got if I hadn't been honest.....
I now have three boys - one whose a Dad himself to two little ones, and a 9 year old and a 7 year old - we have made a consious decision NOT to use physical punishment and lots of reward - and we are always being complimented on their behaviour......

digger, you are living proof that not using physical punishment works (your boys)  as you know what it is like to be on the receiving end :(

My father didn't hesitate to use his hands if I was misbehaving and carried that on until I hit back and left home! I still think that the mental torture was worse to a certain degree. Children have very active imaginations and when they are threatened and told to "wait until I get you home" or "wait 'til your father gets home" it can sometimes terrify as much as a smack.

My daughter generally behaves herself, and I too get comments on her good behaviour. It does go to show that you don't need to use physical punishment to rear a child to have good manners, respect and that knows right from wrong. :)

I must add that when I say the child was yelled at, that's exactly what I mean. Full-volume shouting, about two inches from his ear.

again it is personal choice. i had one or two slaps as a child which taught me what was unexceptable very quickly. some kids that come into my shop ARE so badley behaved & just do not listen to their parents,are rude & i want i want or i will srceam till i get it,im sure these have never been smacked ever & indeed the parents do not even seem to think there is anything wrong with their behaviour.
however there are nowdays methods such as the naughty step etc that seem to work well & ive met very weell behaved childern "trained in this way".

its abit like dog training ,methods evolve & what was acceptable no longer is....however that dosent mean that their should be no rules at all

I found , for very small children (under 3 say) a small slap was vital to make them understand that you were serious about the 'No'. For example if they were heading towards touching an ornament - they seem at that age to not know the difference between a game and being serious :( The smack was a very obvious 'I am being serious here', Once my children had got to the age of about 3 or 4, they were old enough to understand exactly what I meant by 'Don't do it - or else you will be punished'. The smack was then unnecessary and the punishment of no pocket money or being sent to their bedroom etc was a better. My father hit me until I was about 20 - not seriously, but he had big hands and a slap really hurt :( I was very conscious that I didn't want to be still doing that with my children when they were that age and so made a conscious decision that I wouldn't smack them after about 3 or 4.

Daisy

This is another one of those emotive subjects that people don't seem to be able to agree or compromise on. I was beaten when I was a child, it was how my parents were treated as children and they saw nothing wrong with it. I used to smack my older three children a lot as I didn't know another way of keeping a firm grip on them

However, when I met Stephen, we discussed the subject and have come up with alternative strategies for the vast majority of the time. HOWEVER, there *have* been a few occasions when the children have pushed me and pushed me and I have snapped and smacked them. I have always apologised afterwards as their behaviour wasn't *so* dreadful, it was just that I lost control. It does do children good to know that their parents *do* have a breaking point though, that they are not infallible

I am not against the occasional smack on the back of the leg with a recalcitrant child when all else fails. I am against beatings as they cannot do any good. Unfortunately, a lot of the anto smacking people do not see a difference when, in fact, there is a VAST difference ;)

I quite agree with what you say, Mel. I do think that there is an age, after which, a smack becomes counter-productive. Once the child is old enough to be able to reason (obviously varies with each child), then other punishments are much more effective. For an older child, a smack just exacerbates the position, as they are usually deeply resentful at being smacked, whereas another type of punishment doesn't have the same negative effect IMO :) Also, the older the child, the more anger that the parent feels (usually - it's difficult to get angry with a small child, as they don't usually know the effects of what they are doing :) ) and that is dangerous - so it is better to get out of the habit of hitting the child in any way :) Having said that - I have no regrets about smacking my children when they were small :)

Daisy

Substitute the word 'child' for 'wife' and you get exactly the advice that was given to husbands a couple of hundred years ago - it was thought that a 'a good slap'  kept a woman in line and encouraged her to 'respect' her husband    :(.

Some dog trainers of the old fashioned school also advocate hitting a dog to teach it to 'respect' it's owners - an approach that most folk on here are horrified at now .

Are we really saying then that it's ok to hit a small child ? ( some of you have mentioned that it's fine up to the age of 3 or 4) Would you hit a puppy " because it's the quickest way to make it understand " ?

The increase in antisocial behaviour is not because we now hit children less - but because we no longer have TIME for them - everyone is in such a hurry that the only way for some children to get any attention is to behave negatively.

I don't agree with hitting young children at all. I never had to smack either of mine at 3 - they knew perfectly well when I meant business because they went on the naughty step and thats where they stayed for 5 minutes.

im so glad i dont have or want kids!!!!!

I was smacked occasionally as a child and always felt terribly humiliated. I also could never, as a child, see *why* i had deserved to be smacked. It did affect my relationship with my parents, and I suppose to an extent, for a while after, i mistrusted them.

My view is that children need loving and sometimes firm discipline but that doesn't have to mean smacking at all. In shops, i often see badly behaved children whose parents smack them quite hard for small things, when in fact the parents would iMO be better off giving the children things to do and being far more positive in their approach :)  You can see the children need some understanding and direction and the ones that cry andwhinge, and mummy says "stop that or you will get a smack" i feel so sorry for as often the kids can't stop that fast and get more and more upset.I have also seen parents lose their rag which is not acceptable. I do agree though that laws against smacking probably wont' prevent physical abuse.

So i would say discipline yes, (make it fair and loving) and smacking, NO.

Lindsay
X

Trevor - have you got children ? The scenario is a toddler that wants to touch/do something that he shouldn't. He/she looks at you as he advances towards it. You take them away and say 'No' and try to distract them with something else. They try again - and again - and again - and again. No matter what you try they keep on. Sometimes a slap on the hand/leg is the only thing that makes them see that you mean 'No'. There is no comparison for a man hitting his wife. As I said previously - once the age of reason has been reached there should be no need for a slap. Slapping is not something that should happen frequently and should be saved for important moments - teaching them that hot means hot - without them having to experience it . I know excellent dog trainers that are of the belief that there are odd moments when a slap can also teach a puppy the same thing (not that I have tried it)

Daisy

Yep - I remember that situation - with my own mum smacking me for going near the fire. Her logic was that I would hurt my fingers if I put my hands near the fire....so she smacked my fingers to stop it. Where's the logic in that??! I never had any need to smack my children for touching things they shouldn't - I just moved the things until they were old enough to reason with.

Whatever, Chloe. That wasn't my argument. You are fortunate to have had angelic children :)

Daisy

No Daisy - I was unfortunate enough to be walloped so hard by my mother I hated her - and THATS why I am more tolerant than some on here.

Many years ago my aunt's 'progressive' neighbours were very anti-smacking. Their little boy, if he misbehaved, would be stripped naked and locked in the garden ... :(

Thats abuse. There are always extremes on either side of the argument.

I am not going to comment further on this thread. Clearly, I have had "angelic children" so I am not in a position to comment :)

The trouble is that there are people (and this is in no way directed at you, Chloe, or anyone else on this forum) who think mental torture is better than a sharp physical shock. Perhaps they're just sadists who would beat a child (or anyone else they felt they needed to dominate) and cause the terrible damage that makes the papers, like the Victoria Climbie case. But that's utterly different to smacking.

Ideally no child would ever need a smack, but parents and children are human. Smacking is only effective if it's used very sparingly. If it's frequent (like swearing in everyday conversation) then everyone becomes inured to it. It shouldn't be condemned outright though.

Yep - I have two, Rob who is 21 and Jo who is now 24. My wife Yvonne teaches children with VERY severe behaviour problems whose ages range from 3 - 18 - she uses lots of other strategies to change unwanted behaviour - without using " a quick slap " to teach them right from wrong. :D

I well remember my two 'winding me up' - and of course you cannot always reason with a small child BUT there are other ways of dealing with this. I am not some liberal hippy ( was in the RAF for 17 years ) but strongly believe that hitting children merely eases the frustration of the adults. It is also largely ineffective - what do you do if the 'little slap' does not work ? slap harder ?  hit the child with an object ? :(
and what is the child learning - that if you are bigger/stronger then you can hurt others ? - is that not the definition of bullying ?

I am not advocating that everyone slaps their children - all children and all parents are different. As I said earlier - I found that a small smack reinforced the 'No' with a small child. Once the child could reason it was no longer necessary. It's nothing to do with bullying - as someone else (JG, I think) has said - people can 'bully' not just physically, but mentally. There is a world of difference between a parent, who is control, giving a small smack and a parent who has 'lost it' - whether physically or mentally. There are far too many children these days who have no discipline at all. That is far more dangerous to them than a smack (and I mean smack, not a beating) :(

Daisy

Terri, if you're close enough to smack the child, then you're close enough to remove them from the danger.

But small children often sees that as a game and although the danger can often be removed or the child - it is not always possible and you have to teach a child that it must not touch, if you say so. Merely removing the danger keeps the child safe, but you haven't taught the child the lesson not to touch.

Daisy

I whole heartedly agree Daisy but I do think that there are other alternatives to smacking a child. JMO

I agree - but not all children respond to the other alternatives. I don't advocate that every parent should smack every child :) When I did smack my children it was only last resort - not the norm.

Daisy

I was occasionally smacked as a child, and I can still remember what I'd done, and yes, I quite understand why it was done. It was such a rare occurrence that it's stuck in my mind for all these years. And I never repeated the misdemeanour, so it worked.

Blimey -my mother chased me round the kitchen with the T-towel :D -I have smacked my children but only when they were too young to reason with -I also believe there is a world of difference between a one off smack on the back side and a beating . I have a friend who 'claims ' never to have smacked her children  , but the mental cruelty those children endure is far far worse than any quick smack on the bum :(
Not trying to be picky or have a go but a crack with a saucepan is not the same -Chloe -you must have been a baaad girl lol ;) :D

I knew children in the next road who were never smacked. The punishment that the mother used was to put a spoonful of mustard in their mouth :(

Daisy

My parents used to smack me it never did me any harm, i would say one short sharp smack is hardly beating someone, if you were hit repeatedly or with a saucepan or something then yes i would class that as a beating

The point was that a smack was no longer sufficient - THATS why a saucepan was used. I can remember it vividly too. And no, I wasn't that naughty - just that my mum couldn't control her temper and would lash out.

Yup, mothers are human too ;) Not that I am advocating the use of any implement

I distinctly remember sitting under the kitchen table with my mother poking a cane at me (I had done something wrong :D ). My uncle was a magistrate in the children's court and when they had banned caning as a punishment, he came round to our house and gave my parents the 'pick' of his canes :D Fortunately my sister broke it before it was tried in earnest :D

Daisy