I was kindly invited out  this morning for some rough shooting, there was quite a bit of banter flying as tends to be :)

I heard the phrase "Labs are born half trained, springers die half trained"

I know the two breeds have different roles but what do you think, a light hearted question, is one easy to train then the other?

I'm on the fence with this one, having a springer but using Johns advice and book for training her I've got the perfect combination :D

Hiya rob!

I think its hard to comment as you said they are both bred for different jobs, comparing a cocker and a springer would obviously be easier seeing as they do the same job, but its slightly different comparing labs and springers.

Ive never had the pleasure of owning a springer, but i have always had labs, and find them 'easy' to train.
I know people with springers and they say the same, but seeing as the exercise needs are different also in each breeds, maybe the springer would appear slightly more challenging to train??

I think this is personal to what breeds you like and don't like so much! 

I always say my aussies are cleaver (easy to train) but setters are brainless (won't do a thing you say!)

However my mum says the opposite!  I am more into my aussies, but she loves her red and whites, don't get me wrong, I still love the red and whites and my mum likes aussies (but doesn't want to live with them!)

I think its just personal! 

does it mean
labs have alot of instinct & are easy to train on
& springers have more instinct & will work till they drop?

Having had a springer which we didn't know how to train, we trained him in the same way as we train our retrievers for working. He works very well and is a steady little working dog. I've had more challenges with clever flatcoats! Somehow or other we always get there in the end.

I have the pleasure of owning both breeds -  labs I've had for a number of years and am now in the process of training a 10 month old springer.

I can understand the comparison and would say that the average labrador is a more straightforward proposition for a first-time dog trainer. Also within their traditional roles in the shooting field the springer is more likely to give in to temptation as it is used for hunting unshot game as well as retrieving while the lab is tradionally a retriever only.

Additionally, a good field trial springer will hunt with a pace and intensity that has to be seen to be believed in the most punishing cover. Any lapse in control can result in a wildly out of control dog.

Having said this, my springer is proving very straightforward to train, and is able to take on more than a lab of the same age. The difference is the speed everything happens at, and the extent to which I need to be two steps ahead. I feel she would have been quite a challenge had she been my first dog. I'm finding the training more enjoyable though, and have very high hopes for this springer.

As a house pet I feel the labrador wins hands down!

Much more money to be made from breeding and training labradors than springers. A famous trainer is quoted as saying that if you open his heart you would find spaniels, but if you open his wallet you would find labradors.

Some of the springer triallers can be less than complimentary about labs, I've heard them described as 'black slugs', 'corpse-carriers' and 'crapadors' (usually tongue in cheek!)

I'd say that for their traditional roles, both breeds represent the most competent and consistent breed for both training,working and field trialling. A few cockers are now starting to be comparable with springers and there is a small but successful band of golden retriever enthusiasts.

I've seen a number of people training flatcoats and would agree with Polly that springers are much easier!

Heidi is the first dog I've trained to do a job, and to be honest I found it really easy, I don't know if that is because of the way she is or because I gave her all my time in the beginning, like you Polly I trained her to retrieve, but not to hunt.

Thats interesting Havoc, the thing about labs being "black slugs" etc, I haven't seen many labs working, but Heidi does seem to have a certain urgency to her retrieves :) every thing has to be done in top gear, more often then not she crashs in to me and as soon as the retrieve is in my hand she's looking for the next one, and if she's not given something to do she'll get her nose down and she's off quartering.

It has been said that you can train a Springer in your back garden and it will work anywhere whereas you can train a Labrador in one field, take it into another and it will say, "Arr, bur we don't do that here!"

I've never owned a Springer so am not the best to talk about them but talking to a friend, his comments are that the hunting and retrieving tend to fight each other. Because he mainly picks up with his the retrieving was the most important so that was what he trained first. His comment was that if he trained the hunting first he would have difficulties getting his dog to run the distance without starting to hunt at it's usual hunting distance. Of course, the problem then was keeping the dog hunting close! 

Of course, both dogs CAN do both jobs but you then have twice as much to train your dog! A Springer on a rough shoot has a little easier job in that it is not going to have to remember the place of the retrieves until after the drive. It will almost certainly be required to retrieve almost immediately after the shot. There is no doubt no matter what the breed, if you hunt with it then it will not be so steady as if it is never used to hunt. Often during the summer I will hunt Anna in the woods to see what we can put up in the way of rabbit or pigeon. But when it gets around to the first shoot of the season I have to stay on top of her or she will easily become unsteady. Hunting is not conducive to steadiness!

Regards, John

well i'm a lab person i have three (Hi John and rob (clare of BASG!))  if there are easy to train as for spaniels ask me in a few months when i start training my soon to be new dog a ickle working cocker

ive done work with both labs and springers and i find that labs are easier to train, but there are exceptions to the rule, Bruce my 13 month old lab has always refused to listen when trainingis involved, but jack my sprocker is one of the easiest dogs ive ever trained.

tanya

Hi Clare, good to see you here!

Best wishes, John

Hi Clare nice to see you :)

I don't use my spaniel for retrieving, he beats in the line. The training I used while it was based on retriever training, doing a lot of steadiness exercises, and basic obedience for control. Having never trained a spaniel it was certainly different from the flatcoats. Both breeds can be fast, and are a challenge to get right, but having done so I enjoy having them with me on the shoots.

Robert, never mind springers and labs, get yourself a proper Gundog.......... a Flat coat :D

*runs and hides*

liberty ;)

We have springers and have found them them very eager to please when it comes to training,the only problem is they go on and on and on.Just when do they tire out.
Our neighbours have labs and they are much quieter and less scatty.
However I wouldnt swap my boys for the world, scatty or not.

Hi Sandie, I have Labs, but lost my Springer in June.

<<<<<Just when do they tire out.>>>>>> Emmm. they dont :D. And that teenage stage that most dogs go through, springers dont go through it, ......They stay in it. Enjoy them :D