I posted couple of times re desperate bad bully, still don't know why he's like it any suggestions ? my partner and i moved to our cottage in cheshunt weekend and is now just the 3 of us no mum or Doberman or Cat as was living at my mums, we still have his daughter every other weekend who is so scared of Alfie we don't mix at all at present until we have seen the behaviourist which is Potters Bar - 28/01/2005 Queen Mother Hospital - Royal Veterinary College i wondered if anybody any success or new anything, my vets referred me and they meet once a month i have to take Alfie along having filled in a book of questions also some video coverage if possible.
I am hoping now we have moved for the 3rd time and he's 8 months old we can begin to settle my concern is my baby is due April 11th and he's such hard work, i can't leave him in a room on his own because of wires and anything he will get hold of for playing, he has his own toy box, walked daily which he hates walking along the road until we get to the park then he's fine, but he still bites myself and my partner, mainly around food be it his or human food i can't have him out when we eat together as will bite my partner, i eat in front of him but my parther won't has he will attack his feet/ankles,  both of us are at wits end as i am 6 months pregnant and he's such hard work, we love him, fed him walk him, and yet he turns in to a different dog daily for abt 20 seconds at a time be it around food or gets over excited, what am i doing wrong with him, he is not doing himself any favours as i will have to rehome in Jan after the behaviourist has seen him because i am scared he will attack the baby when it comes. You never know what he will do. I have had him neutered, also all blood tests, liver shuts, thyroid you name it last result is the behaviourist but am scared they are going to say will take 7 months for any sort of improvement which of course i don't have the time due to the baby coming April, sorry to ramble on but i just don't know why he plays up with such aggression and unpredictability, every one i speak with that are breeders or show these dogs say they have had no problems and they are good dogs, what's happened to mine, two people i have spoke thought brought pups said they had terrible time and was not until reached 1 year old they changed and are good, both was boys like mine and one had kids and the kids was bitten as well. I have tried with the breeder but he don't want anything to do with it i have spoke with the stud dog owner and they have one of the pubs and said she's fine no problem i can't find out abt the others. My partner thinks the food thing is because he was from a big litter and may have had to fight for food and that's why he's so protective of his when dishing it up or human food. Oh he's on Walfcol veg dry food as vet told me no meat as been having to much protein with causes aggression and i do agree little as we have had over 40 % change in him for the better. I can handle the chewing the whole puppy thing but it's the bitting, aggression i can't cope with, we are picking up a ex police force dog kennel and 12foot run this coming sat but i don't want to have to put him in 24/7 only whilst i work in the day as i won't have a home, at the moment i brought a great dane jumbo size metal cage for him to sleep in day which has plenty of room  for 5 hours with food, water, toys when the weather breaks the plan was to put him in the outside run and kennel whilst at work and would come into the home when we got in after walked and sleep in the cottage and i don't wan't a yard dog.

Once again i am sorry for this epic.

LJ
xx

Lorna did you get a copy of the thyroid results? as they are not always understood well by vets. If you would like it, i may be able to get the copy looked at for you.

What i would suggest is this: get in a trainer just to look at him and see him interacting with you, basically just to assess whether they feel he is actually aggressive or just getting very excited and too much ;) Some dogs can seem really aggressive when in fact they are just enjoying themselves and i feel it may really help to get this advice until a behaviourist can help you in late January; what do you think?

There is also a very good forum apparently for bull terriers who are problematic and who may be having seizures etc; it is http://groups.yahoo.com/group.BullTerrierneurologicaldisorders

I'm not suggesting he has a neuro disorder but if you go on there you will find peeps with similar problems and lots of knowledge about this kind of behaviourwhich may or may not be neuro-related.

Hth a bit,
Lindsay
X

correct address is :-

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BullTerrier_neurological_disorders/

Z

Thankyou :)

Lindsay

X

Ziggar thanks for site have contacted them.

LJ
x

Hi Lindsay no i did not obtain copy of the tests but i have just phoned them and asked for copy of all the tests done to be sent to me,  i can as they are on record at vets blood was taken and sent to there animal hospital for tests and then all results was faxed over. I don't have insurance because a lot of what i have had done i am not covered anyway. Thank you for you advise i have contacted the web site and waiting to subscribe in order to try and meet or get answers. I am going to wait until Jan 28th as i already took Alfie,  classes and he's so good at all that it's just the aggression, snapping, biting, i printed a load of info abt bringing new baby home and i have a whole load of things to start to do as from now before the baby comes April. Last night we had problem with him as next door have a dog a staff i think, and he went totally mad, thing is Alfie has not taken notice of dogs played with them no fighting as i walk off lead with him all the time i only put him on lead along roads and if kids are running around as he trys to jump up and frightens them in the fields, i thought he was going to go through the fence last night as they dog was in the garden and he well totally mad barking for 2 hours. I don't know what happened really showed aggression towards the dog, and never actually saw him, i think he was protecting his garden and total lost it, i think the dog may have come into our garden whilst we was working because the fence panel was down, last night lucky Alfie could not get through as i dragged him inside.

I will keep you updated with hm, my partner wants to re home him Jan but am trying to hold out until i finish work March and will be home all day with him.

LJ
x

Have pm'd you with my email so you can, if you like, send me the thyroid tests and i will try to get a knowledgeable bod to check them out for you - it may take a little while but hopefully will be confirmed as no problem ;)

Lindsay
X

now im not sure, so forgive me if im wrong.  But it sounds like perhaps he is getting over excited. I have an 8month old staffie and it took us ages to get her out of the biting stage.  whenever she wanted attention she would bite our feet, or grab our clothes and pull really hard.  Bloody hurt too!  She also sometimes gets over excited in play and 'sounds' really aggressive growling and biting, this also hurts. However, when she gets like this we put her on a time out, ie in the hallway away from everyone for about 5 mins, then if she continues the bad behaviour we do it again.

Have u tried filling up kongs to keep him busy?  and activity balls. 

It sounds like he could be bored and trying to get ur attention?  Especially if u have done all the test and come up with nothing.

I have bruises all up my arm from my staffie getting over excited or attention seeking, even on walks she will jump up and bite us to make it more interesting.

I agree here we need to distinguish bwetween 'Mouthing' and 'biting;.  Unfortunately dogs idea of play can be unacceptably rough for a human being, especially some of the rufty tufty breeds.  My Jozi when she returned to me would launch herself at me, grabbing my legs, feet, bum and boobs, as far as she was concewrned this was play.

If I tried physical reprimands she woudl just play harder.  With her the spray bottle would stop her in mid flow so that I could firmly6 and calmly tell her no.  She would keep trying and I would keep squirting the water in the face until she gave in, then call her for a very slow and quiet fuss.

Once she understood, it was sufficient for me to say 'eneough' ehen she goty OTT, and maturity did the rest.  She wa 8 1/2 months old at the time, a real teenage tearaway.

Does he bite with the intention of wounding, or is any broken skin just accidental??

So you shout at him and pull your body parts away?

Thsi would make the 'game' all the more exciting for him.

I found thatif I actually kept still and pushed my hand into ehr mouth she would actualy spit it out.

i agree brainless.  They find it very exciting if u try and physically stop them or pull yourself away. I also find pushing my hand toward her mouth stops her from biting.  And a 'timeout' when she gets ott.

It really sounds to me like hes over excited and he hasnt learnt that he cant play rough with you.

I agree; there is a part of me that thinks the same; hopefully it will turn out to be just that :)

Lindsay
X

i think as long as u keep up training with him, the unwanted behaviour will slowly disappear.Dont let him get away with biting you.  I had this problem for ages with Indie and im finally overcoming it now.  She will still bite when playing, but playtime is still either stopped or she is told a firm NO and she calms down and plays nicely.  And again she still tries to grab my clothes and things when shes bored, but again a firm NO stops her now, finally!  Try set aside maybe half hour a day of playtime and give it a cue, like 'ready' and 'enough'.  And perhaps give him more walks, cant remember how much u said he gets. But so long as u wear him out, he should sleep the rest ofthe time :)  or jus require short ball chases and tug games without attacking u for the attention. 

Jus try and keep it up and i hope it works out ok for u.

Many thanks for all yr reply's and advise i contacted the web site and posted for advise there on what i think he may have couple of the problems, " * Compulsive tail-chasing/spinning on a daily basis, light/shadow chasing, Sudden Onset Aggression (SOA) which is also sometimes referred to as rage syndrome. " but i feel it's to late we had a bad weekend with him,  with regards to human food, he viscously attached my partner, i made some tea and toast and brought them into the dinning room where he jumps up the table to smell i did all the correct things by giving the "off " command several times and he leapt at my partner and had hold of his arm lucky he had a thick jumper on, i got him  by the collar and put him in the cage for time out. It's not playing biting i wish i could say it was he shows such aggression and attacks i have all the toys filled with food,  so he is not bored, he has very long walks and will sleep fm 10.00 pm until 7.00 am no trouble. Then getting ready for work this morning both dp and i came  downstairs and he had been let out for toilet, made a fuss of  partner was putting his fooddish in the cage as normal whilst he gave me a lift to the station and Alfie attached my partner badly on the hand i don't call this play bitting.The up shock of it is we are going to re home him as i know in my heart of hearts i can't give him the attention he needs when the baby comes and i don't have any trust in him at all both my partner and i are living on our nerves my partner said last night he has not enjoyed him in the 8 months we have had him and can't believe the aggression a pub can show and that he has not been a puppy at all apart from the chewing, playing but food times are hell with him abt and  we can't have my partner little girl who's 4 in the same room because he jumps and trys to bite her hair and she cries, i would hate to think what would happend if she had sweets or food. Having spoke to a friend who may want him has had a bully for past 13 years and lost him 6 months ago he want's another one and has two teenage girls which he sees every couple of weeks lives with his partner and will take him a work with him as he is a landscape gardener, i think this is the best thing for Alfie as i know when the baby comes, i won't have the time, energy for him as it's my first baby and of course he will be jealous and i would never forgive myself if he attached the baby and i had to have him put to sleep. I have cried all weekend over it but know i am doing the right thing. My friend is seeing him this week and said it takes up to 3-4 years before they settle and are a 24/7 dog to train and having a baby is a no no.

I thank you all for you messages.

LJ
xxx  

Hi Lorna

So sorry to hear things are so bad and that you have decided to rehome, but on the other hand it is good that you have a home lined up for him which sounds good :)

I can understand you would be very worried with the baby coming.

Can i suggest, that you mention to your friend that he perhaps takes him to that behavioural anyway? as it may help; also pass on the address for the bully people who can support re. problems. A reputable behaviourist wil be able to help with food problems etc and this will probably still need addressing. Also if you want to send the details of the thyroid test to me as it would be sad for the dog if he was infact ill and this could be solved with medication.

Best wishes
Lindsay
X

Thanks Lindsay i have to meet with the guy this week with Alfie and he knows all the background i have kept the appointment for him also spoke abt no protein Walfcol Veg Dry Food which he loves along with fresh fruit and veg daily, I am finding it really hard to have to let him go and my partner said i can keep him but he will have to be in the kennel we picked up yesterday daily, i don't just want to keep putting him in the kennel daily and nightly so as hard as it is going to be i have to let him go, if it does not work out with the guy i said i will have him back and re home with bull terrier site and not to rehome him himself or sell him on i would rather have him back. I think if i had not fallen pregnant so soon after losing my 2 baby Jan this year things would be different but the fact i am pregnant and 3 months to go i can't risk the life of my baby, am not worried abt me i can handle him but it's the baby and my partner's little girl i am worried abt. As i know you understand.

LJ
xxx

Also please let the breeder know where he is going.  I know as a breeder mnyself I would be most upset to know one of my pups had been rehomed without my knowledge.  Most reputable breeders would wish to rehome themselves, or at least have the opportunity to talk to the new owner to ascertain the placement woudl be likley to work out for both the person and the dog.

Sometimes certyain dogs and situatuions just are a mismatch.

Hi Barbara, i won't be contacting the breeder as afraid he was just in it for money and used a show/stud dog for his bitch for first litter, they was a very young couple whom lived in a flat and wanted nothing to do with the problems i had/having i contacted him number of times and did not offer to take pup back just kept saying the others are fine, i should have looked into the litter more and got the pup/breed from the stud dog owner but he put me onto this litter as his stud dog had been used. The only good thing is i have had he neutered so if there is a bad line it won't continue with him.

Tks
Lorna