HI there, Hello I'm New and I need help :)

I'm lucky enough to be the proud owner of a min pin puppy but I have a major dilema over vaccinations. Should I or shouldn't I? My breeder says she does not vaccinate her smaller dogs ad chooses to use homeopathic methods instead,owing to the fact she has had experience of vaccination damage in this breed. My vet however says this is completely unfounded and that by not vaccinate using pharmaceutical practices I am exposing my puppy to fatal doggy diseases. I do not know what to do I have read much literature on the subject and am even more confused than ever. Conflicting info alongwith statistics and surveys supporting both side of the debate have managed to set me in a spin. And with a puppy fast approaching 8 weeks I need to make a decision. PLEASE HELP?? even to reasure if you dog has had either of this parctices would be most grateful.

Thankyou

Ange xx

Welcome to the forum :)

I had my dogs (Danes) vaccinated initially but after the first year booster they have not been done since because I don't kennel them and I can remember the days that one jab at puppy stage was enough to cover them for life! I have had no problems in vaccinating any of my dogs but I don't have your breed... have you talked to your breed club to get their perspective?

Thankyou for your help.

I was thinking that even if he just has his puppy jabs done that should be ok. Because I read that boosters are unnecessary to maintain protection.But then I read that its the puupy jabs that are most dangerous as this is when the dog is most vulnerable due to his age. I am trying to get in touch with my breed society but I thought I ask you guys too. You seem friendly and to give real life advice. I thought that if everybody out there said that their dogs were ok -  that would mean more to me.

Hi there! I have had he same dilemma as you in the past. I had a standard scnahuzer, who I bought from a great breeder in Gloucestershire. She too was against puppy jabs and instead had given all hers the homeopathic treatment. I never had any problems with this, although I went through the same conflicts of opinion as you!! I didn't vaccinate my pup in the end. My vet obviously was none too pleased, and it meant that Jasper could never stay at kennels but I worked around this.
Of course your vet is going be determined that vaccination is the way to go (not only because of the fee he makes from it, but also the training they have had regarding this). I'd say go with your instinct. Try not to rread too many facts and figures. If you think you are going to be dreadfully worried about it, then vaccinate. If not, don't!! Min Pins are such tichy little guys, and I would presume have their own health issues like other specific breeds. But IMHO, do what YOU think is best.
Good luck

Hello thanks for your advice, I have a couple of questions if you don't mind...sorry to be a pain

I wonder as I assume Jasper is in tip top condition and always has been ( :) and always will be ). Do you take him to shows or events? as I would like to take my pup to training classes and start socialising him soon. ( I worry about exposing him if he is not conventailly vaccinated) Also do you use any homeopathic methods? as I not sure of the effectiveness of these. Sorry to be a pain. I appreciate any suggestions you may have

Ange xx

P.S Have you ever seen a giant Shnauzer they are HUGE! At discover dogs the Shnauzer breeder stand had miniature, standard and Giant breeds - it was quite a sight!

You may find that he won't be admitted to training classes without proof of vaccination - I know my local training club won't take them without.

Personally, I have my puppies vaccinated and my dogs boostered annually till about 14 years of age - have never had a problem in over 40 years, and I personally have no faith in homoeopathy. Of course, I've never had a kin pin, so they may have different health issues.

Good luck, whatever you choose to do.
:)

Hi, Jasper has always been fit and healthy. I didn't take him to shows or events, and never kennel him, so I cant really comment on that, but he has always socialised with lots of other dogs and has not had one sick day in his life! If it is going to be a huge worry to you, I would suggest vaccination. I think the risks of the vacc are small compared to peace of mind!!

PS Giant Scnauzers are fantastic dogs, and I would love to own one, or even another standard. As a breed all 3 types are just ace!!

Hi Ange and welcome to the Forum ;)

I know many people who prefer homeopathic alternatives.  That said, I'm not sure if any also use homeopathic "innoculations" instead of the more commonly vet given jabs the first time round.

IMO if your breeder has expressed concern specifically having knowledge of potential problems in your puppy's breed I'd be going with that.  Thousands of dogs get no (obvious anyway) adverse reaction to vaccines but I've also heard that certain lines in a breed can have a low threshhold tolerance for specific meds - it may be that your Min Pin's lines have a low tolerance threshold and so therefore your breeder in that instance would know better than anyone what was the safest thing for you to do.

Regards, Teri :)

You will read differing opinions on this subject especially on the internet :) my personally view is the logical way is to always to go with the larger body of scientific opinion.  But someone else has suggested you could contact the breed club to try to accertain if the larger body of opinion within the breed suggest vaccination is a problem with this particular breed or whether your breeder is a mavarick perhaps influenced by a particular anecdote, don't forget 1/12 of all illnesses occur within 1 month of an annual vaccination ;)  Have you told your vet of these specific fears regarding your breed, you never know they may be aware of some actual evidence regarding them?

Personally, in this case, I would listen to the breeder rather than the vet. The breeder has nothing to gain by advising you not to vaccinate whereas your vet stands to lose income from you every year. 

Joyce - owner of 2 v. healthy unboostered dogs (toy breed ):)

I would definitely have the first vaccinations.  After that, you could afford to not have boosters, but there are very nasty illnesses out there and there is no definite proof that the homeopathic remedies work.  I personally like homeopathy, but not for something as important as this.

If you don't have your dog vaccinated, how are you ever going to be confident when it's around other dogs, or walking where they've walked? As a retired Health Visitor, it's the same with babies - people who choose not to have vaccinations worry for far longer, especially if there's an outbreak of a particular disease. The general consensus of informed scientific opinion is that there's far greater risk  - to animals and humans- :) :) :) from the diseases than the vaccinations. Just have a look at the posts above which I presume are talking about parvo virus. I was paranoid until my pup was fully vaccinated - forever taking off shoes, disinfecting floors and washing everything to excess. I just couldn't bear the thought of one of my dogs having to suffer such a dreadful, sometimes fatal, disease.

Joyce, another reason the vet may advise vaccinating is the scientific evidence or perhaps because he deals with the outcome of unvaccinated dogs.  I think it is rather unfair to suggest their only reason would be an unethical financial one maybe the breeders are entirely ethical too but there are also financial incentives not to vaccinate!

Isabel - I didn't suggest that the vet's only reason would be an unethical, financial one at all.
I was merely trying to point out that, because the vet had a vested financial interest, his opinion was likely to be biased.
Sometimes vaccinations can do more harm than good.  There are thousands of owners of departed dogs who can testify to this.

The main thing is to do some research so you can make an informed decision as to what you believe is best for your dog.

Playing devil's advocate - perhaps vets stand to make more money if they treat dogs which have been made ill from vaccines? ;) Or dogs that haven't been vaccinated and catch diseases? Healthy animals don't bring in the cash ...

>his opinion was likely to be biased.

You do seem to be suggested it is the greatest influence :)
Personally, it seems to me that as vets are scientifically trained their greatest influence would be the scientific evidence, they will certainly be aware of it and to ignore it because of financial reasons would be unethical.  No doubt, as in all walks of life, there will be the odd unethical vet but I doubt very much the main body of them are and the main body support vaccination.

guess choose the one which gives you more 'peace of mind' and follow your gut instinct.  Only you know what that is....

I've had my dog vaccinated as I know he is safe, a friend's dog wasnt and it got really really sick :(  x

I had a litter of pups vaccinated a few yrs back, one pup went down with a horrific auto immune disease within 24hrs & shortly later the rest went down with parvo. So convinced was the vet who administered the vaccine that it was caused by it that he cancelled his contract with Merial, the makers of the vaccine & changed to another manu.
6mths ago I had a litter of 10 pups, none were vaccinated & up till now all are doing fine. They all live not too far from me & are taken out & about everywhere with their owners. 2 of them have been at a show  as well.
It is not a decision to be taken lightly & must be done with full knowledge of as much facts on vaccines you can find.

Christine, Spain.

Leptospiosis does need to be vaccinated against every year, i believe it is caught through rats. Humans can also get it too i think, so is it worth taking the risk? You do have to consider that a lot of training classes, kennels e.t.c. require regular vaccinations, so you may not be able to attend these. I also think some insurance companies can be funny about it, although some will just refuse to pay out if the dog gets the illnesses vaccinated for.
I really don't think the vets only advise vaccinating dogs for the sake of £30, believe me they get a lot more from treating ill animals! I would've thought they have scientific evidence to prove that it is worthwhile. If vaccinating was useless then why did so many dogs suffer from the diseases before vaccination programmes were put into place, and very few do now? I understand that a few dogs have had bad effects from vaccines, but maybe there is just as much risk of them contracting the fatal diseases as well.
Most vets aren't doing the full vaccination every year, only the lepto (and perhaps another one) is done every year. THis is thought to be safer than doing the whole lot every year as has been done previously.