With many breeds of dogs I know that the amount of exercise must be limited for the first year of life in order for good hips and bone growth.  I met a man in the park today who told me that his vet said that this is nonsense and the amount of exercise should be ascertained by how much energy the dog has etc.
My 6 month old Lab is going by the 5 minute a month rule so is now up to 30mins three times a day.  However, if she meets other dogs in the park she can happily run around for an hour and a half going looney and it looks like she really needs to do this!!!!! Can I allow her to do this?  If I let her I then try not to take her out for anything more than 10 minutes or so in the afternoon and evening.  What do other people do and is this alright
Van

You already know my views. If you feel like allowing it that is up to you

John

Like John, I really do not want to entertain this, but I will. Goat if you want your dog to be a cripple by the time she is a year old, go ahead. Let her live the rest of her sorry life in arthitic pain. I hope you can afford the vets bills or you will probably need to have her pts in what should be her prime. The guilt you will feel should help you remember the 5min rule when you get your next dog.

Her health and welfare is your responsibility, the 5min rule is there for a reason.

I speak from experience. I took on the responsibility of a Lab at a year old, who had no excersise except bursts of 2 hour madness. at only 15months her xrays showed severe arthritis, she has just turned 4 and I now have to assess her quality of life, which at the moment is not good.

Kay

while i am also sticking to the five minute rule religiousley i do sometimes wonder about years gone by was this always known cos my mum grew up with labs and she said they never knew all this in those days and hers used to run round all day and went out constantly and never suffered and lived long happy lives

John - Hi I know your views and it is because of you that I am sticking as strictly as I can to the 5 min rule.
Kay c- I understand how you feel but I think your tone is extremely harsh.  Please don't make me out to be a bad person if you read my post I said that she is allowed at 6 months of age 30 mins, morning, afternoon and evening but OCCASIONALLY in the park when she meets other dogs of the lead I allow her to play for longer.  I think that the fact I have posted this question today shows my concerns about this and that I am being responsible by checking whether or not this is acceptable don't you?
It is rare that she gets a chance to play with other dogs like this.  I might also add that other than sticking pretty rigidly to the 5 minute rule she is not allowed up or down the stairs and is also carried in and out the car.
Van

Goat, if I have misunderstood your post then please accept my apologies. :) I read your post to mean that you had actually let your dog run around for an hour and a half. The harshness in my response may have been OTT to you, but if you have witnessed the results of over excersising (and under excersising) it would break your heart. It only takes one hard knock in rough play to damage a hip, so even occasionally would be out of the question. IMO.
Kay

A breeder friend of mine, GSD's, handed over a very healthy pup of 10 weeks. He had been fed and cared for brilliantly by the breeder. Within a week or so the owners arrived back saying there was something wrong with the dog and the wanted another pup.

You should have seen the state of that poor pup, they were walking it for hours on end, to the point that its joints ached and he could hardly stand. The owners said they followed the breeders info. sheet, but upon investigation, and asking around (you don't get away with much here on the Isle of Man without someone knowing something), and she found out the truth, including running with the children whilst they cycled!!! (this just horrified me). She of course has taken the dog back, the Vet said it was absolutely exhausted, and of course it had lost weight and muscle due to the huge increase in exercise. He is recovering slowly and the vet is optimistic that he will be okay, but who knows for the future.

This is totally shocking to read.  I believe it is important that before people take on dogs they are educated, ask a lot of questions and made fully aware of how they should be looked after.
I knew about hip problems, dysplasia etc long before getting my dog and have done utmost research asking questions both on this board and of course at the vet and to John who has been a wonderful help.
Katyc no worries I understand what you are saying and can only begin to imagine the awful pain of going through and seeing a dog suffer like this.
From now on I will not allow any long play times with other dogs and will stick to the 5 min rule rigidly.  I am paranoid about her bones and hips in anycase and this is why I wanted to post this question asap before I let her play with other dogs like this I needed to know.
I would like to know though at what age they can play with other dogs and the bones are fully grown is it when they are a year old?
Thanks
Van :-)

As a general note, it is worth bearing in mind that the intentsity of the exercise can do as much (if not more) damage than the duration.

The 5 minute rule is sensible and can be easily communicated and learnt. However, it should be borne in mind that it would be quite possible to cause damage to pup well within the 5 minute rule by overstretching the intensity of the exercise.

I would like to just add on here that i too was paronoid about hips etc and went to great lengths to get a nice puppy from good hip scored parents where the same mating had been done 2 years previously and had been super and no problems.  I exercised carefully but at the age of 7 months after noticing my boy limping slightly the vet diagnosed after an xray Hip Dysplasia very badly in both hips.
So if a puppy is going to have problems it will not be stopped just because you are being careful.
I would still strongly reccomend though that everyone limits thier dogs exercise as best they can while they are young.  My boy is 9 months now and its heartbreaking to know he does not have a happy lively future ahead.

I don't now how it has become a rule I know we hear lots of anecdotes but I would be interested if anyone is aware of any studies done on this.  The reason I find it confusing that we limit puppies so severely is the fact that is is opposite to how we treat children.  The Government recently released advise about recommended levels of exercise I can't remember the exact details I, believe it was something like 1 hour a day but whatever it was I did note that the recommendation for children was exactly double.  Hip dysplasia occurs in human families (we have it in my own) plus we walk upright now (not just my family :)) but I have never heard anyone suggest children should run around less although I have heard it recommended that they do not do high impact sports as this could damage joints (as it can in adults) but that exercise would develop well supported joints.  My advise to my puppy purchasers has always been treat them like toddlers don't let them overtire themselves but otherwise no restrictions, I find you soon learn to spot when play has to stop or when they need to be picked up and carried or when the daily walk can be extended a little further without that point occuring.  I do recognise that may be different for some larger breeds and would say that all the dogs I have owned have fallen into the size and weight that Mother Nature would probably have made them, if you see what I mean :)

Regarding the comparison between puppies and children, just two points I thought of:- 1.dogs grow so much more rapidly than children do, especially the larger breeds, which must put more strain on the joints. 2. By the time children are physically able to take significant amounts of exercise, they are normally able to communicate quite clearly, one way or another, when they have had enough! The poor young dog just trots along faithfully with its owner, with no way of communicating that it's exhausted - and even if it could, the larger breed puppies are too heavy for the owner to carry at quite an early age. Thus I think the 5 minute guideline is very useful. 

Oh I think to an observant owner a puppy communicates tiredness very well :)  I suppose if your puppy is large and you can't pick it up you would have to be more careful that a walk could be completed before it got to that stage.  You have a point about the speed of growth but what about the view that execise builds a well supported joint?  Believe me I don't say I am right about this but it is something I have been mulling over for a long time and I find myself more and more puzzled.

It's a useful guide for the very many un observant owners out there, though.
:)

Yes I suppose some do need a guide don't they :) but I'm still of the opinion that, in my breed at least, this "rule" is rather too little I find the requirement is different for individuals even within a breed, my old cocker was always more athletic even as a puppy than my current one, so I think it may be better to guide people to be able to judge whats needed rather than giving them a "rule" as I am not convinced that under exercise is not just as bad for them in terms of building strong heart, lungs and joints.

Hi Isabel, In response to your post re; childrens excersise, I dont know if a similar rule of thumb does apply but in my personal and painful experience it should. As a child I wanted to be a gymnast, I worked extremely hard upto 5 hours per day from the age of 5 to 14 when I was chosen as team member for the Edinburgh Commonwealth Games. All the bumps bashes and broken limbs  caused my cancers and I developed arthritis before I was 40. All the surgeons and doctors have told me that my my premature arthritis is a direct result of over excersising, and the carcerous tumours which keep returning are a direct result of constant pounding on my body. The one good thing is that high impact sports have given a bone desinty to be proud of, at least there is little chance of me developing osteosporsis :) Back to dogs,  do go by the 5 min rule, and also if I have puppies older than 4 months they are restricted in their playtimes at home as well. It is not just the intesity of lead walking that can do damage it is also rough play. Puppies can do serious damage to each other just by throwing their full weight upon another and slamming against a brick wall. We dont notice the damage until it is too late.
Sorry rambling again :)
Kay

I did say that I did not think high impact sport was a good idea.  My little sister did competition gymnatics as a child so I know what you mean although, thankfully, she has not had the after effects that you have suffered.  I'm just talking about walking and running around I would not suggest that young dogs do agility for instance but then a good agility club would not allow them to do the jumps while most would welcome them along to begin with the weaves etc.

I hope I am misreading your post, but how it reads to me is, if you are exercising her 3 times a day for 30 minutes a time, that adds up to 1.1/2 hours a day, far above the 5 minute rule!!!

Please correct me if I have read it wrongly.

Lady Dazzle
you did not misread my post at all as she is 6 months old 6 x 5 = 30 mins as I have been led to understand by many people this is fine 3 x a day.
If this is wrong please somebody tell me asap.
Thanks
Van

I may be wrong here, but I think 1.1/2 hours exercise a day to too much for a 6 month old.

Lead walking is quite intensive.

Our latest puppy is only have 3/4 hour per day maximum at the moment,he is 6.1/2 months, that combined with natural play in the garden is quite sufficient in my opinion.

It also depends on whether the walk is a gentle stroll or a route march at a quick pace.

Hi
She is on the lead for 5 mins to get to the park the then for about 20 mins she is off the lead doing what she wants to do ie sniffing, peeing etc I usually stand still or sit down and watch her she never goes far from me so she isnt running, jogging etc.  The last 5 mins she is back on the lead again to come home from the park.
The next two times out she goes in the garden to play for 10 mins and then the evening time she gets a 10 min walk so I think it all adds up to about 60mins apart from of course the time when in the park she meets and plays with other dogs which I will now totally stop.
I never do intensive lead walking with her.
I am confused by your post as you say 1.1/2 hours exercise a day is too much for a 6 month old however if your pup is 6.5 years old and you are giving 3/4 hours a day isn't that even more than the given amount?
forgive me if I am wrong i have never been good at maths :-)
 

Sorry Goat my pup is getting threequarters of an hour :-D

That sounds much better now you have explained how you do the exercise, its just that lead walking can be a highly intensive exercise.

Alady thet came to my training class had her golden retriever wanted her hipscored before breeding her. She was horified to find that the hips were so bad they couldn't score them.

The bitch was totally sound, showing no signs at all of any problem

Her vet said that was because she had exercised strictly by the book as a puppy, gradually increasing the exercise. This had allowed muscle to build up to compensate for the bad hips.

This is quite likley. Just think what trouble she would have had if she had over exercised while the puppy was young. She could have been looking at a hip operation by now.

Regards, John

I have an eight month old weimeraner who is suffering with OCD.  He has been exercised using the 5 minute per month of age rule consistently.  He has been x-rayed, been on a course of injections, is on supplements in his food and even now after 20 mins exercise his legs can become very sore.  All weimeraner owners will understand how hard it is to keep one still as they love to play, however he has been restricted due to the pain in his hips and knee joints.  The vet tells me it has probably been caused by over enthusiastic playing, i.e. bounding around like a normal puppy does, but it's just something that some dogs are more susceptible to than others.  I am hoping with all my heart that he wins his battle with the treatment.  I really thought that I had done everything right in being careful, i.e no stairs, no endless jumping/running around - but it just goes to show that even when we are careful, things like this can happen.  I wouldn't like anyone else to go through what I have with him, seeing him in pain is not a nice sight - its very distressing.  Good luck to all who have these problems!!

This seems to support my view that exercise is important to provide good support for joints.  We don't really know which "book" the vet means restricting it to, maybe only no impact exercise.  As I say anecdotes abound but I wish we could find some real evidence you would think someone would do a study on the subject.

I have friends with 3 dogs - all large gundog breeds.  Dogs No.1 & 2 were bought basically as pets & were shown a bit later in life.  They were reared with lots of exercise - forest walks, swimming etc. from an early age.  Both are hipscored and both have scores totalling 6!  Dog No.3 was bought as a show dog, wrapped in cotton wool, exercised  on a lead for small walks and has a hipscore of 24!!!!   

I tend to find that every person I meet when out walking Leon (10 month GR) says to me "crikey he's big, hope you give him plenty of exercise" and then look at me like they are considering calling the RSPCA when I tell them how long we walk for!!! It's always "but big dogs need to walk for hours, thats just cruel". Thank goodness for CD or I might have believed them!!

Hi Goat,

I have six labradors, ages ranging from 14 to 3 years of age.  None of mine have suffered ill effects from the exercise you describe. They have all excellent to hip grades and clear elbow radiographs.

Hip/elbow dysplasia in my experience is genetic.

 

HD is polygenetic & also enviromental where do you get the evidence it is purely genetic ?

Be nice if it was Labs6lover. It would then be so easy to breed out. Bad hips can be due to so many things both before and after birth. Possibly 25% of bad hips are due to environment, (Injury, over exercise and the like) with the rest due to possible hereditory causes.

As I have said before. You cannot improve bad hips by restricting the exercise but you can certainly make them worse by not restricting the exercise and you will not know that your puppy has bad hips until the damage is done.

Regards, John

I agree that too much exercise is probably not a good thing and hate to see young puppies being dragged around the game fairs. I kept two pups from a litter once and they were great buddies and used to play rough with each other. When the time came to hip score them they were much higher than I expected considering they had not been walked long distances and were fed correctly and parents,grandparents has low scores. Also siblings who were scored were low.This leads me to think that rough free play is a bad thing.
Amos