Not logged inChampdogs Information Exchange
By wolves
Date 29.11.04 19:05 UTC
my border collie is 1 year old and is behaving aggresively towards other dogs,usually it's dogs on leads that he goes mad at'but he can turn on other dogs minding their own business in the park,sometimes he bites them and other times he intimidates them and their owners,he doesn't do this when he's out with my husband!!He has been neutered but he still behaves like this.He has never really had any contact with other dogs,could it be that he needs to spend time getting used to other dogs or is he being protective towards me?has anyone else had to deal with this?.He is perfectly well behaved except for this.
By Spook
Date 29.11.04 20:11 UTC
I own a breed notorious for dominance and male/male aggression. I've tried various techniques but my preferred is dog treats in my pocket. I started off by making them stand nicely keeping their attention on the treat, if their attention slips a quick click of the tongue and a sniff of the treat brought their attention away from oncoming dogs. It took no time at all before they got the idea. Now when we see oncoming dogs they all instantly look to me for a treat. I'm using positive reinforcement to distract from a confrontation and taking control (i am top dog after all :) ) Before anybody starts....they have not gained any additional weight :D
Dogs have 3 natural instinct Freeze, Flight or Fight. On the lead you narrow down their options.I don't want any of my dogs feeling pressurized to do any of the above. I always like to stay calm,consistent,fair and kind.
I take it that this behaviour is when your dog is off his lead.....I should hope he is not biting other dogs whilst on a lead in any case! I agree that you need to look into why this is happening, and there are people more experienced than i who will advise you where to start.
However, I have some important advice for you, and that is that you should keep your dog on a lead when he is out with you, until the problem is sorted.
You cannot expect people to tolerate intimidation by your dog...and sooner or later you may be reported to the police for having your dog out of control.
The cause is almost certainly as you say, because he has not had any contact with other dogs. How long have you had him and was he farm bred at all? :)
I would suggest you really need someone experienced to help on the spot, it may take some time to make him less reactive. The neutering wouldn't do anything because the behaviour is not sex related but fear related in all probability. A good book which is helpful is Jean Donaldson's "Fight".
Lindsay
X
Ps Have PMd you.
By gaby
Date 01.12.04 11:57 UTC
I have the same problem with my GSD 11 month old pup but she shows this behaviour when on lead, and fine when not.
I have ordered the book you reccomend hope it helps. I have asked vet for a refferal to behaviourist but she has had skin problems since September and vet wants this cleared up first.
By Teri
Date 02.12.04 00:35 UTC

Hi Gabby, if she's had skin probs since September and that's now 3 months + I don't think I'd be happy waiting on my vet resolving that problem before a referral to a behaviourist :( If it takes him several more months - if at all - to resolve the skin condition, valuable time is being wasted on you receiving help on the behavioural front. It could even be that the problems are in some way linked but I'd want a member of the APB on side with all the help they could offer either way.
It's a well known fact that when behavioural problems become entrenched they are much more difficult to resolve and in view of your girl's age and size of breed I'd personally insist on an immediate referral or be looking for another vet.
Sorry to sound negative but you obviously want what's best for your girl and it doesn't sound like your vet is providing that at the moment.
Best of luck,
Regards, Teri
By gaby
Date 02.12.04 11:52 UTC
Hi Teri
2 weeks ago my vet decided to do skin scrapes and testing. Wish they had done this sooner. The vet had been treating her for Dermatitus.They came up with Dermodicosis immediateley and this week Ring Worm. As the later is infectious to both man and dog we must make sure this is cleared before exposing others. The vet prescribed Program as in their experience has worked for Ring Worm as well as fleas. She was given 4 tablets in one dose and the makers advised vet to treat with another 4 tablets in 2 weeks time followed by another test.
Has anyone been helped by a behaviourist for this kind of problem?
By Teri
Date 02.12.04 13:16 UTC

Hi Gaby,
Glad to hear that some progress is being made on her skin condition ;) Don't know if you thought from my earlier reply that a behaviourist could help skin conditions (?) I simply meant that there could be a link such as stress.
Anyway, the main thing is you have help for one problem but you will want to address her behaviour a.s.a.p. and a behaviourist would more accurately be able to assess why she is behaving on the lead in the way she does than replies on a forum. Sometimes it's easy to put everything down to aggression when in fact a dog may be acting in what seems like an aggressive manner out of fear for example which is why it's difficult to give specific advice.
In the meantime, can you use perhaps a head collar to walk her so that you have control of her head and she can't physically bite another dog? Also, try and find ways of distracting her when you see another dog - you may have to scan the horizon to spot one before her ;)
Try and avoid situations in the meantime where she has the chance to show this behaviour and at least things shouldn't worsen in the interim.
Good luck, keep us posted, Teri :)
By gaby
Date 02.12.04 14:10 UTC
I always do my very best to avoid other dogs when she is on lead. She already wears a Halti as I was not sure of my control as she is getting so big.
She has not had the oportunity to actually bite another dog but she growls snarls and the hackles come up on her back. She lunges with her full body weight. I do think that this is a fear thing.
We went on hols when she was 4 months old and a friend of my daughters who breeds GSD for the police force looked after her. On our return the breeder said that my pup was a bully and would need firm handling. I was shocked as could not imagine her as a bully. Since then she has been displaying the agressive behaviour increasing with time. Maybe she had a bad experience whilst there with one of her dogs.
Just lateley whilst in the park and she is free, she will approach another dog with an agressive stance and charge but provided the other dog is friendly they will then just play chase and have a supper time. I am unsure what to do. I don't want to stop all contact with other dogs as she needs to learn to read other dogs body language but with her agressive approach it could be possible that she could provoke a fight with a less tolerant dog. What do you think?
I know the only answer is a behaviourist. As soon as we get the all clear from the vet I will insist on this.
By cissy
Date 02.12.04 15:24 UTC

Dear Gaby and Wolves
You have my sympathies. Simple walks turn into nightmares to obsess over. Please do not feel that you are alone as I did when I experienced male -dogs on lead aggression with my corgi. He started to show this behaviour at the age of 1 [no problems off lead but lots of lunging on lead towards dogs in the street etc] and I had to do a lot of work to de-programme him. Absolutely no other behavioural problems of any kind but this one overshadowed all pleasures of dog walking.
I went to a properly qualified canine aggression expert who does workshops using stooge dogs to teach manners to the anti-social dogs. I also read the Jean Donaldson books [as per Lindsay's post above]. Now he is 2 3/4 years old and has much better manners. I trained him using a long line in parks and by adopting JD's "bar open/bar closed" method so he checks in with me when we see a dog - then gets a yummy treat. I never walk him down narrow paths or places where he cannot avoid oncoming dogs - if we go shopping then I cross the road to avoid dogs and do not let him sniff dogs on leads. He gets loads of controlled socialising anyway off lead so there is no deprivation there.
If we do come across a dog on a lead then the treats come out but I'd rather avoid the dogs altogether. I wouldn't say that he is now 100% perfect at leaving these dogs but he is an awful lot better at "checking in" and less interested in a punch up.
I also tried numerous versions of the halti type head gear and I would say that this is not always the magic solution. I found changing the attitude of the dog using the treats far more effective.
Regards
Cissy
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