Tail docking, who agree's that tail docking should be banned??

Geoff

No I do not agree that tail docking should be banned.
Dawn R.

Not me :D

*ducks for cover* :D

CHLOE! You are using ducks for cover?? Don't the feathers stick in your mouth??

:p

Pluck em first - then eat em :D

Nope !! me neither :D

I agree - tail docking should be banned. 

Thought someone might have put forward a reasonable argument why its ok to mutilate their dogs.....

Geoff

'hides with Chloe'

Geoff :)

Is it OK to mutilate dogs by cutting off their tes*****s then?

Jo

I think Geoff is in a mischevious mood this morning! :D

I don't think that tail docking should be banned. Although I like to see dogs come into this world how nature intended, I do see the reason for some working dogs tails to be docked. The damage that some dogs can sustain to thier tails while in the field, can be horrific and I'd rather see thier tails removed while they're still pups, than have it amputated anyway as adults. :(

now I'm gonna hide

I don't really have an opinion... I wouldn't buy a docked breed though because I wouldn't want a "cosmetic" dock on my consciense - because on dogs like Rotties I'm afraid to admit I prefer them docked.

But thats only 'cos we're used to seeing them without tails Chloe, we'd soon get used to them with tails....

I disagree with the working thing too, I had a working lab who never damaged his tail when working cover, cut his tongue a few times tho'

Geoff :)

p.s. who me......

Like I said - I don't really have an opinion - which means that if tail docking were banned I wouldn't be up in arms about it.

PS - yes, you...

Geoff, I should of made my post a little clearer. The dogs I'm refering to are spaniels, not Labs. :)

I don't think anyone should compare having a dog castrated with docking for cosmetic reasons. Dogs are castrated for their own benefit, to deter fights and stop unwanted puppies and so on. Docking serves no purpose other than to meet breed standards and please people. Docking working dogs is another matter. I have no personal experience of this practice but understand it is to prevent harm to the dogs in the field. I would not like to comment on that as it is something I am ignorant about.

I suppose at the end of the day, it is down to personal preferences. To me, a dog looks weird without a tail, and I think they are important for body language. I love Aussies, but although they are naturally without tails, the fact that they don't have any puts me off. There will always be people with for and against arguments in both camps, just like fox hunting, and I don't think anyones minds will ever be changed whatever the opposite argument is. Agree to disagree, it is the only way!

Claire and two collies, with very long and fluffy tails! :D

Dogs are castrated for their own benefit, to deter fights and stop unwanted puppies and so on.

I tend to think dogs are castrated for the owners benefit...after all, they are only doing what comes naturally!

>Dogs are castrated for their own benefit, to deter fights and stop unwanted puppies and so on.

No, in general dogs are castrated for their owner's benefit.

Sorry, don't agree there. I had one dog done because he was so highly strung and emotionally messed up, he was not eating, the other was done because he was showing fear aggression and getting himself into fights. They were castrated to help them, not me. It is benefiting the dog if he is not getting hurt from fighting, or starving himself and fretting all the time. :-)

I personally dont see the point in it, yes the dog may hurt its tail in the field but then it may not, dogs with tails work the field as well as those without, I think the argument for docking is that if you dont dock the dogs then they have wispy tails which are more likely to get injured is crap too, I have seen a fair few springers in my village, all who have natural tails which are quite thick and well covered in hair.  My breed, the Irish Setter is not docked and one of Fagans brothers split his tail open by wagging it too much - does this mean the Setter should be docked

I did say I see the reason for some working dogs tails to be docked, I didn't say I agreed to it ;)

One of my collies has an extremely long tongue (has to be seen to be believed). Should I cut the end of it cos he is always biting it!

There is a medical precedent in humans for this to be done

Daisy

Here we go again, more sentimental nonsense!

Working springers and cockers absolutely need their tails done, but only by about a third. A hard going spaniel is going to get ripped up in brambles whatever, but shortening the tail gives it some extra protection. The average person would probably think a spaniel docked by a third or quarter had not been docked.

Labradors work cover completely differently to spaniels, there is no comparison.

All the other breeds, I have no strong opinion on. However, I have never come across a dog that had been correctly docked by a vet that had suffered any negative consequence. I personally wouldnt have a dog docked more than one third, but I wouldnt want to impose my preferences on other breeders.

In terms of genuine welfare of dogs I dont believe that this issue warrants the attention that it gets.

Its called debate havoc, not sentimental nonsense....

I had a Bedlington/whippet lurcher that worked cover like a demon, he would go where no springer/cocker/whatever wouldn't even look at, he never damaged his tail, used to cut his ears up really badly but I never considered having those removed.

To be honest I was talking more about cosmetic reasons, than working dogs anyway....

Geoff

My corgi [Pem] likes his tail too. :)

Geoff,

True, its a debate.... a debate about sentimental nonsense. ;-)

A good working spaniel will hunt any cover, its the speed that their tails wag while they're doing it that does the damage.

In terms of tail protection for other breeds, I'm not so sure. I would have thought that a dalmation or great dane would be more likely to suffer tail damage than an undocked rottweiller or old english sheepdog.

I'm not a great fan of cosmetic docking, but would admit that I prefer the look of a working spaniel or HPR dock. Undocked spaniel tails seem to be excessively long. However, I know some excellent, caring breeders of show dogs that dock tails for arguably cosmetic reasons. Their dogs never seem to suffer any ill effects, and therefore would not want to restrict them from getting their pups docked.

I think dogs have their testicles cut off for different reasons Jo....

I dunno....they could easily catch them working in the undergrowth.... LOL A thorn bush or nettle patch can't be pleasant!

No it isn't chloe, take my word for it !!!

Geoff :)

Willis had a big paw print on his the other day from when Phoebe trod on them :D

I think dogs have their testicles cut off for different reasons

It could be said about men also!! 

Good one rugrott :D

I wish more men could have their testicles cut off. I'd be more than happy to oblige too ;) :)

What reasons are those then?? other than the obvious.... :rolleyes:

Hi I do not agree that tail docking should be banned.

I'm not sure whether it's right or not - I have one dog with a beautiful tail and one that is (probably - the breed can be naturally bobbed) docked.

Mutilation - for a lot of humans - is quite a natural thing to do (not for me, I might add) - breast enlargement/reduction, nose jobs, circumsion etc etc etc

Whether it is right to do it to our pets and for what reason is quite a difficult one. I would never do it for purely cosmetic reasons. My docked dog was already done - but if she had had a tail, it wouldn't have changed my choice of dog :)

Daisy

tail docking should only be used depending on the dog if it used for working like in the army where a tail can be annyoing however it this is the case then it should be done by a vet it should never be by a person who has no idea what they are doing or if they think tying an elastic band round the tail will make it fall  off straight away i aslo found out most people who want their dogs tails docked are using them for fighting

Hmmm... interesting concept... dog tails at dawn..

Geoff ;)

LOL - I wonder if they cut the tails off and then give them back to the dogs to do that Fencing thing with LOLOLOL

:D :D :D @ Geoff!

Quote : "i aslo found out most people who want their dogs tails docked are using them for fighting"

:-D :-D :-D

I'm sure that the american cocker breeders will be disturbed to hear that their secret is out!

In some traditionally docked breeds it has been found over the years that their coat is too thin and their tails too whippy to guarantee no damage to their tails in a household (or even kennel) environment.  I have known people who have decided not to dock once the pups are born, but by the age of a year or so and painful damage to the tail, several pups in the litter have been docked.  This is then a much more serious procedure needing a general anaesthetic.

Sorry, but with all the cases of cruelty, dumped dogs etc.  I think there are far more important things for people to fuss about than a quick hygeinc dock.  Farmers put elastic bands on their lamb's tails, and their nervous system is much more developed than a newborn puppy's, and there is no particular follow-up to check if it is clean etc.  No-one worries about that though.  Even my vet says, Ah but that is different.  I don't know why that should be so, except that the lamb will probably be eaten and the dog won't.

If dogs need tails done because they would be damaged otherwise i don't mind so much, but i disagree with cosmetic docking purely for looks - and i really really loathe the American cropped ears ... it's my pet hate when talking about "looks".

I would like docking done under anaesthetic though. After reading about human babies being operated on without, because of the same reasoning, the idea of any  op. without makes me shudder.

Lindsay

I agree with Lindsay about anaesthetic (and was also going to cite the human baby operations).  I don't believe in removing a body part incase something later happens to it.  I would prefer to hold onto everything of mine unless it was absolutely essential to remove it, and I feel our dogs deserve the same (MAYBE some working breeds are the exception to this - I don't really know).

Fiona

Not me  :) in fact  I campaign against a ban on docking! we work and breed vizslas all but one are docked , we imported a bitch earlier this year and she is undocked and she sustains alot of damage to her tail but alot of this damage is done in the home enviroment not just the field.

i dont have a docked breed, i like tails,like them wagging & showing emotion! :)
HOWEVER if my breed was traditionally docked i would not like to be told i could not have my breed the way i love it...........HOWEVER is a breed more than a tail???? surely!

on a personal level,i ;like rotties boxers etc with tails.

any dog can injure their tails & dont believe that have have to be docked if they work.

ive seen docked BCs & docked labs through injury & ive seen undocked workers/cockers ESS with full tails.

i believe its PERSONAL choice :)

I agree that the whole docking issue is given far more importance than it warrants. There are far more animal welfare topics which should be given greater Parlimentary time, not to mention entirely "un-animal" issues. It is a sad day when our MPs feel that an issue which cannot be proved to harm an animal outweighs the likes of puppy farming, animal dealing, battery farming, fireworks - the list goes on - all of which everyone KNOWS causes suffering to animals (not just dogs).