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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / puppy choking on lead
- By keri-lee [gb] Date 26.11.04 16:45 UTC
Hi! I have a 14 week old bedlington whippet who is pulling on the lead until he chokes. I have never had a dog before and don't know what to do. I'm really scared he'll injure his throat. He has a soft collar and a normal (short) puppy lead. I want to train him to walk to heel and never allow him to get in front at all but don't know how.  Some people say not to restain him to heel but he will not come to heel voluntarily because he is so very excitable, so i can't reward him for doing so! He's learnt to sit, lie, fetch already, so it's not that he's undisciplined or stupid!
I've tried stopping when he pulls but he just strains until he chokes, and that's at the lead's full length, let alone in front of my heel! It's quite exasperating and I'm scared if i don't do the right thing now, he will grow up with these bad habits. Does anyone out there with more experience than me (i.e. anyone!) have some advice for me.
- By LindyLou [gb] Date 26.11.04 17:29 UTC
One way that worked for me was to make the dog sit every time it pulled ahead. Then go a few steps and make it sit again. It worked very quickly. They learn that they are not going anywhere until they behave. I still do it occasionally when they get a bit too excited.
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 26.11.04 17:30 UTC
Hi! As it's your first dog your best bet is to enrol at some training classes. Good ones are run by the APDT - have a look at the list here for trainers in your area. Good luck!
:)
- By tohme Date 26.11.04 18:01 UTC
I would strongly suggest that you go into the website Learning About Dogs and purchase Walk With me booklet where you can learn how to train your dog to walk calmly on a flat collar and lead.

HTH
- By marie [in] Date 29.11.04 22:27 UTC
Look at things from the dog's point of view. He's pulling on the lead because he is in a rush to get to the park. He's also happy in the knowledge that you're still there behind him because he can feel you pulling on the other end and hear you shouting "heel" at him! In other words pulling is rewarding!

So let's change this concept. If he pulls on the lead it's because he wants you to take another step forward. REFUSE! Stand still and stop talking to him. Even walk backwards away from what he is pulling towards if necessary. Reward only the desired behaviour. A loose lead.

It is important that your lead is of sufficient length to allow it to stay loose. If it is very short, you wind it around your hand or you pull it up or back then your dog will have little opportunity to keep it loose.

The more accustomed your dog becomes to pressure around his neck, the more he will pull.

Do not rely on your lead to control your dog. It is the least reliable form of control. If you accidentally drop it or it breaks then you will probably lose your dog. If he rarely feels pressure around his neck then apart from the fact that you're unlikely to drop the lead or have it break, if it did he would not be aware and would continue to walk beside you anyway!

If your dog was at the front of the queue when persistence was handed out and you were at the back of the patience queue then you may wish to consider using a head collar such as a Gentle Leader, Halti or figure of eight design. There are also harnesses on the market that are designed to stop a dog wanting to pull. Never resort to a choke chain. The theory that a dog will stop pulling if you choke him or give him a sharp jerk around the neck is a very outdated one. You could cause untold damage to his neck, vertebrae, voice box and coat.
- By jessthepest [gb] Date 29.11.04 23:02 UTC
Can I just slip in here with a similar question?  My dog doesn't pull generally, however if she gets a fright, she pulls like mad to get home.  It happened today, we were almost at the end of the road (where the dreaded building site is) and the builders started jumping up and down on metal sheets.  Grrrrrr those builders, I'm sure they do it on purpose!  So of course, Millie turned on her heels squealing and started running back up the road for home.  Now I don't want her to think that I'm scared too by heading straight for home, yet once those Scottie brakes go on, there's no other option.  I often (as I did today) tried telling her to stop and wait but she absolutely will not stop and wait, she is squealing and pulling like crazy for home (and she was on the extendable lead, so I couldn't 'reel her in' and pick her up either as she wouldn't stop for me to catch up.

How do I handle a situation like that?  I don't want to make it easier for her to turn round and go home if she gets a fright as we will never get past the end of the road (occasionally, if they are being quiet and she really wants to go to the park she will go straight past, but most days she only has to step outside the door and hear a noise from the site and she turns back) but at the same time she is absolutely terrified, squealing like a piglet so I don't want to drag her unnecessarily, besides she's so strong that I couldn't anyway!  Treats or toys as motivation don't work in this circumstance - she is very food motivated but once she's freaked out she will not concentrate on anything other than getting back home to safety. 

Advice please!
- By Teri Date 30.11.04 12:23 UTC
Hi - poor little thing has obviously gotten herself in a real tizzy :(

If I were you I would try and habituate her to the noise without approaching it.  Firstly, before going out at all with her, can you spend some time in the room of your house nearest the noise with a window open while she's either playing with you or getting treats for something (I know, it's freezing just now!)

When you take her out of the front door and she freaks before you've even gone anywheere, remain on your doorstep/porch whatever and simply close the house door behind you and wait for one or two minutes maximum -  don't react at all, by reassurance etc.  simply try to remain calm and oblivious to her and then go back indoors.  Do this as often as you can, firstly by gradually increasing the time she is spent waiting on the door step from say a minute up to 3 minutes until you see signs of her coping better.   Then move onto your path and wait, again just for a minute and back indoors and gradually increase as above.

HTP.  Teri ;)
- By Teri Date 30.11.04 12:27 UTC
I'm sure my laptop has a tiny word count!!!!!!!  Tried to add the following to my original reply:-

>  When you feel she is more able to venture onto the road itself, go in the complete opposite direction of the building works.  Any good response from her should be rewarded with lots of praise - but calmy, not excitable, in case this stirs her up again.


You will need to be patient as she is clearly very worried so the key is not to try and force things onto her too quickly. <

Teri  ;)
- By jessthepest [gb] Date 30.11.04 13:08 UTC
Thanks Teri!

The thing is, she spends most of the day on the ledge in front of the open living room window (her choice...sorry, actually I should say 'her demand'!  And yes she does bark to insist I open the blind, and then bark to insist I open the window!) and we can hear the building site noise. 

Also, I sometimes put her on a long training lead and let her sit on the front doorstep/pathway where I can keep an eye on her from the window and a firm hand on the lead, and she loves it, even if she can hear the builders, she knows she's safe and can come back in when she wants as I leave the front door open.

Whenever I try to go in the opposite direction with her, she won't go.  She's adamant she has to go in the direction of the building site (because that's the direction to the park, and also it doesn't help is the other side is the direction of the railway line, so she will only go 'right' out of the gate), but as soon as they make a bit of noise she retreats.

If she refused to walk, I used to pick her up and carry her past the site and then she would happily trot all the way to the park unfortunately now she weighs about 9-10kgs I can only go a small distance when carrying her now!

There is one other direction we can go in - opposite my house is a cut-through to some garages that would avoid both the railway line and the building site - unfortunately an angry rottweiler lives untied in a back garden here, and every time someone walks past he goes mad, leaping up at the wall (I know its a high wall, but he can get his front paws right up onto it and I'm convinced that eventually he'll build up enough muscle power to be able to get over!).  Consequently I'm terrified of going in that direction (in fact I haven't used that cut-through for over a year now as last time he told me off, I almost had an asthma attack and took a few hours to recover, and I know he would be worse if I went through with my dog!). 

So I can't blame Millie really can I!!!! Three directions to go in and between the two of us we are scared of going in all three directions.

I can't wait to pass my driving test and drive to the park!

Anyway, I've digressed!  She will happily walk past the building site at night and weekends, not the slightest bit bothered so she clearly knows exactly when the builders are there, and exactly when to be scared.  And if they're quiet (tea break) she will go past, but they just seem to make an awful lot of noise, an awful lot of the time.  We're in a cul-de-sac surrounded by no through roads so its really quiet here and the building site is located inbetween two buildings already, so you get echoes and reverb and you have to walk in the gap/alley between the site and one of the established buildings as the site has cut off the pavement, so the noise they make is probably a lot worse than walking past a big open building site. 

When we first got here, there was another site on the way to the park being demolished and she was terrified of the diggers but with perseverance, toys etc. she made excellent progress and overcome it, but this site has been here for about 7 months (typical builders, not in any hurry) and I don't think she's going to improve at all until its complete and gone so for now I think I have to accept that if she's spooked she's going to turn on her heels and pull like crazy to get home.

I think I'm going to have to invest in a harness as I'm worried about the damage the pulling will cause.
- By Teri Date 30.11.04 13:23 UTC
Hi again Jess,

Gosh you two have your problems don't you ;)

Well, since the building site thing is only temporary (albeit builders NEVER seem to work to schedule) I guess your particular problem will be over in time.  I still think it's useful to put some work in with her as you never know when you'll come across a situation away from home where she'll react in a similar manner and you'll maybe have her drag you off your feet or lose her lead :(

Good luck anyway,

Regards Teri
- By jessthepest [gb] Date 30.11.04 19:38 UTC
That's a very good point, I did go to tie up outside the corner shop opposite the site once, (possibly before she had 'the fear', not sure) - the one and only time I ever tried tying her up outside the shop I hasten to add! - and before I'd even tied the lead up, she'd slipped the collar, ran across the (thankfully very quiet no-through) road.  She stopped still when I shouted at her but when she saw me approaching with the lead she carried on running, all the way home (on the pavement bless her, and stopping every 20 seconds to wait and make sure I was still following before she pegged it off again;-) ).  Maybe this has something to do with it.

I agree, I think I'm best off just waiting until they clear off and we can enjoy going to the park again!!! so would you agree that if she has a panic moment and pulls for home, I should just 'go with the flow' and be dragged home, rather than trying to make her stand still and wait for me or encourage her to go on?  That's what I've been doing lately as I've figured there's just no point, but I got paranoid when reading the other advice for the other person that I shouldn't be allowing her to pull and dictate where we going.  But I think in these circumstances I will let her as she's so good at other times and doesn't pull at all.
- By Teri Date 30.11.04 22:29 UTC
Hi again,

Maybe I've just missed reading it but how old is your Scottie? If she's a puppy/immature juvenile you obviously don't want to be putting unnecessary pressure on her - neither her nerves nor her neck :D

If she's an adult and this is previously unseen behaviour I don't think I'd give in to it completely - like I said I'd just try getting her used to the noise from the doorstep, then path, gate etc of your house.  It's always difficult to give advice on a particular behaviour without all the facts - even then, "facts" can be interpreted wrongly either by the poster or the person reading the post :(

There are tapes/cd's available (try GOOGLE) for desensitising dogs to a variety of frightening sounds and these can be played at low volume while your dog is doing something it enjoys and gradually increasing the volume until the tape/cd does what it says on the lable ;)

Teri  
- By jessthepest [gb] Date 30.11.04 23:35 UTC
She's 13 months old - the building site has been there since she was about 6 months so it couldn't have happened at a worse time (i.e. setting her up for a lifetime of building site fear, whereas if it hadn't been there, a building site would have been something we would have walked her past occasionally for socialisation reasons that she probably wouldn't have taken much notice of).  Grrrr, grrrr and thrice grrrr at those builders!
- By Teri Date 30.11.04 23:47 UTC
Hi again ;)

You're right of course, couldn't really have happened at a worse age - but, some things we can't help so no point in fretting about that now.  In view of her current age, personally I'd not push her to overcome this particular fear response.  It could only make things worse due to hormones etc etc.   I always think it's very important to avoid genuinely negative situations around this age group if possible - whether dogs or bitches.   

Try and get hold of the noise tapes/cds if there are potentially other noises she may not have had positive exposure to and you can work gently with that and forget about forcing the building noises on her.   Perhaps you can time your park outings with her when the site is closed (with builders that's usually most of the time isn't it :D)

Best of luck, Teri
- By jessthepest [gb] Date 01.12.04 18:34 UTC
Thanks Teri, for all your advice on here! :-D

And apologies to keri-lee, sorry for hijacking your thread!
- By keri-lee [gb] Date 01.12.04 14:54 UTC
Thanks for the advice! I've tried refusing to move forwards when he pulls. I would stand still calling "heel" until he comes back to me and then walk on again (at which point he instantly pulls again of course!) Should i stop again then? He pulls so much that i'm stoping every 3rd time or so

Sometimes i get him to sit and make him wait until he's calm if he's pulling. I think he can't concentrate. Usually he will sit on command first time, but when out walking he's too distracted! How will he learn if his mind isn't on the job!!!

We've been walking him now for 2 weeks. My question is: How long should a puppy take to learn to walk by your side? If it generally takes a month or more, then i will just persist and not worry. However, if he sounds unusual for still being so rubbish at it, I will have to think seriously about getting help before he gets permanent bad habits!
- By Moonmaiden Date 01.12.04 15:00 UTC
Do you do any training at home with him ? Before my dogs put a paw on the streets they have training to heel off lead at home It's harder that using the constrait of a lead but the results IMHO are better as the dog never learns how to pull !
- By Teri Date 01.12.04 22:55 UTC
Hi Keri-lee,

Even if taking him on a walk means  one step forward and stopping again or one step forward and two back, persevere - this is common in young puppies training.  Is he food or toy orientated?  If so, try and get his attention while on the lead.  Two ways that can work are 1. tie a small toy or small ball onto the end of the handle of the lead and let this *randomly* dangle in his line of vision - but not down to his level where he can grab it ;)  2. This may sound a bit crazy but I've heard it can work although not as yet needed to resort to it myself :D get a long tube of cheese or pate spread (Primula or such like) and hold this on the side that you walk him on letting it drop to where he can reach to lick it (this means keeping your LOOSE lead in the opposite hand).  With both methods use a command occasionally, but don't keep repeating it constantly as he'll simply switch off to the sound of your voice <LOL>  I prefer "close" rather than heel but that's a personal preference as it is a less harsh sounding noise and won't confuse with the word "here" which I use as a *demand* when the command "come" occasionally eludes any of mine :D
- By Teri Date 01.12.04 22:59 UTC
Hi again Keri-lee,

As a PS to the above, (darn computer keeps letting me down :() If any method you use works - even for just a few minutes - lavish lots and lots of praise on him - any training has to be fun and reward based to succeed.

Let us know if you see any signs of improvement - but be patient.

Kind Regards, Teri ;)
- By Coleystaff [gb] Date 17.12.04 14:47 UTC
Hi we have a 9 month Staff supposedly the worse pullers around, always seemed to see them with harnesses and we didnt want that. So at about 6months old we got fed up with her pulling she was getting very strong, we had left this training as the last thing to be taught and started to try and stop this behaviour. It took a week to see a small improvement, we had aching shoulders and arms as we would stop and tug the lead back gently but sharply(must be careful not to hurt the dog,thats why a sharp pull is better) and then say 'close' and stop walking each time. It took at least a month of constant and persistent training, some days were better, some seemed to be worse than at the beginning. Now she walks slightly in front of us which suits us and only pulls if gets excited over something or has a fright. dont give up or lose your temper,stay very calm and in control! I know its hard but it works
- By DOGLUVRUSA4EVR [us] Date 17.12.04 02:38 UTC
there is a number of things you can do one thing is to let him do it until he does give a little choke then he may stop but it doesnt do anything to them or they wouldnt do it or you could do this every time he pull simply give a pull back and say heel or get him a friend he can walk with i have a nother do now and my dog doesnt pull anymore well not as much also it is a greyhound it wants to go fast so try some substitutes
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / puppy choking on lead

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