Hi there

I recently tried to buy a puppy of a breeder and was told that they would be kc reg, however, the breeder told me that I could not have the paperwork as she likes to keep hold of it for her own peace of mind.  Also she has a very strict contact that the best puppies she can take off you for 5mths to breed and then return them (bitch) and stud (male ) at her own convience.  No finacial gain to the new owner just to her.  I decided not to go with her as it sounded very wrong, is this what sibe breeders do?

I've no doubt some breeders amy work like this but it is not right.You should buy a pup and if you pay for a pedigree with paperwork thats what you should get.The pup is then yours and the breeder has no rights over it unless you have brought it on breeding terms. Most reputable breeders will put restrictions on a pups papers but that is nothing like you are descibing
You did right to walk away
Archer

I suppose it is just one step further than rehoming breeding stock once they have contributed to the breeding program not everyone has the space to keep several dogs.  Not something I could do myself but provided the dogs are placed with care I don't think I would like to criticise anyone for operating in this way.  People can offer their puppies under whatever terms they wish its up to you whether you wish to accept those terms once you have established that they are otherwise the sort of breeder you would wish to deal with and that they have honestly explained the conditions.   I would, however, ensure everything is described in detail in writing if you decide to go ahead.

Personally, I would not buy a pup under these conditions. Sounds a bit like having your cake and eating it to. You cannot be expected to pay top price for pedigree dog and not even be given the paper work. I would also not let someone come back to me, breeder or not, and expect me to hand over my dog for breeding purposes. JMO

Lube 

I would say she keeps the papers so she can keep the puppy in her name! And 5 months is too young to breed - the new owner will have only had the puppy for 3 months. This sounds like a very suspect breeder to me.

The breeder takes the pups back for 5 months, not at 5 months, Fillis. (I know cos I had to double-check in shock!)

Ooops - brain not full engaged (again :O ) Even so, I would not accept these terms - surely she doesn't do it with EVERY puppy?

I wouldn't accept those terms either.

As the others have said if the case is as desribed and you were being charged full price for the puppy then this sounds suspect to me to.

Now it may be that what was being described was a sale on 'Breeding Terms' which usually means you are getting a puppy at reduced price with agreement to let the breeder have a litter later.  These arangements have to be put in writing as th3ey are very variable.  soem the breeder takes the dog back for mating and rearing of the litter and then the bitch would go home after the agreement has beeen fulfilled with papers transfred to the new owner.  In other cases you are expected to breed the litter at your own expense with the breeders choice of stud, and ghive the x number of pups from x number of litters.

Personally I don't like Brteeding Terms arangements as they often cause ill will and misuynderstanding.

If a breeder really needs to have a bitch or dog back to incorporate into their breeding program then they can always offer the owner of a male a stud fee in the usual way or arrange for a 'Loan of Bitch' agreement whereby the breeder can breed a litter from the bitch owned by you and for the purposes of that litter will figure as the breeder.  I bred one litter this way and paid the owners a fee (the price of a puppy as they would have if I paid them a stud fee for a male).  They had wanted their bitch to have a litter and have a puppy from her but were unable to do it themselves due to husband working and wife not being in good health, but in the event they didn't have a puppy as by then they couldn't have reared a pup until he retired.

To safeguard their breeds and lines many breeders put restrictions on the pups paperwork to prevent pups being registered (agreeing usually to lift these when health checks are carried out and dog is suitable for breeding), but some feel they need to withold paperwork altogether, as this restriction would only prevent pups being registered but wouldn't prevent the ancestry deatails being used to sell unregistered pups or registering with one of the puppy farm registries, and they don't want their lines being involved with such practices.

I would personally contact the Breed Club/s and find out what this breeders reputaion is.  they may be a top notch breeder being super careful and offering a breeding terms arrangemeent on pick of litter, or may be someone trying to have it both ways as hgas been suggested by other posters :D

Good luck.