if a dog of yours was "accidentaly" (so the person says) mated and had breeding restrictions and to make it all worse the other dog isnt even k.c reg, so both dogs have no health tests etc done, the person who has brought the litter into the world is refusing to let you know where the pups will be going even though you are trying to help in anyway and are willing to be responsible for any pups /dogs down the line (as you would be for a normal planned litter) but they wont budge grrrrrr!

anyway my question is does the owner of the dog used unknowingly have any claim on this litter? e.g could they for instance say they wanted 1 of the pups from the litter? and could the other owner do anything about this ? where do they stand on this what would you do ? fair enough the pups wont be able to be k.c reg etc but you can guarantee at least one of them wont be used for bringing more unwanted pups into the world!!   any help here guys much appreciated  !!

Was there a verbal agreement or written agreement of any kind ?
I suppose there would be "slightly" more rights with a written aggreement but even then , if this person homes the pups to someone what could you do ? Taking such a matter to court would be a costly business :(

with a verbal agreement you have the same right as a writen one,just that you got to proof it,

i have had this at work i had a verbal contract 14 year ago and i can proof it bye my time sheet and wages,so the company i work with cannot do a thing  untill i sign the new contract,

so if it a verbal one and you can proof it go all the way,

the person in question who had both the dogs at the time of the "accidental " mating was well aware of breeding  retristions on the dog is this what you mean? they were seperated during the bitch's season obvioulsy not full proof seperation though!!

sorry Briedog I probably phrased that wrong- yes youre quite right a verbal contract is just as binding-
I meant to say that its sometimes harder to prove it as it can be one persons word against another - :)

To be honest unless you have DNA tests done to prove that your dog is the father, you have no proof that they are indeed your dog's puppies. Without that proof I would say you have no rights. Sorry. (But it's good to hear from someone who's not all for studding their dog with all and sundry - it's a refreshing change!)

so the breeder of the stud dog couldnt treat this as a normal mating even with it being accidental? they are not interested in money not in the slightests but in the welfare of the pups, hence asking if they have any right to ask for 1 from the litter etc ,that way they can gurantee at least 1 pup safe not to be used as a breeding machine!

sorry i am asking these questions on some's behalf so bear with me thanks

No, unless the stud dog owner witnessed the mating he couldn't sign the declaration on the KC registration form even if the pups would otherwise be registerable. So he has no proof that the litter is sired by his dog.

Jeangenie thanks for that ! the breeder is horrified as the dogs havent even had any health tests etc so who knows if they have passed anything on to these pups?! they only want to know buyers details to do what a normal caring breeder would do and that is to keep track of puppies from their lines, certainly this is different as they cant be reg etc but still as the owner of the dog used as stud im sure all breeders will agree both owners are responsible for the pups!
thanks for the replies i can pass all them on as they get posted

If I was your breeder friend I would be a real pain and keep contacting the owner of the bitch until he/she (hopefully) allowed me some input, or at least the details of the puppies new owners.

One thing that you have to be careful about is if the bitch owner is going to try to register them with the DLR scheme...they seem to allow anything to go on, registered or not, the puppy farmers scheme it should be known as !!
Keep on at the bitch owner as you could I suppose try a solicitors letter asking for a stud fee or some input as the bitch owner does have progeny from your dog by default/neglect/theft???......only a thought but worth a try
Good luck

thanks again for the help breeder is getting nowhere fast! dont think there is much chance they will try and pass them off as dlr etc! owner isnt even bothered where pups go to they dont grasp the concept that they are responsible for those pups lives and that they should be available for the duration of their lives for advice or take them back etc! breeder suggested drawing up a contract stating that all pups be neutered as soon as physically possible but they replied but what if they dont agree!!?? simple they are not the right people to sell these pups to! also breeder suggested to give her details to owners then if anything goes wrong down the line then  she will quite happily take dogs in and rehome them etc didnt budge either! these people are beyond belief! they just doent care and its heart breaking !! anyway thanks again for all your help you have been great so far breeder is thinking what her next step should be :-D

Maybe offer to buy the whole litter once they are weaned????
they will probably welcome the chance to get rid if they feel like that ...at least your friend could then home them responsibly

That went through my mind too Gary

I dont think theres much that can be done .
be ready and willing to help rehome if things go wrong or have the breed rescue at hand . we all know young pups at 6 weeks can be stressfull .If anything like that should happen make sure there signed over dont just take them . same goes for if they let you have 1 pup because of the dog that was used

Sorry, I'm probably being thick here, but how did the bitches owner use the stud dog without the stud dog owner knowing?

he was rehomed to the person who had the litter, she seeminly wanted him so she could start showing, had him 3 weeks and wanted him gone, so seems they may have had it planned all along to use the poor boy! the breeder was still the owner of the dog used as no papers were handed over until she was sure he was going to be settled properly in this new home, obviously this didnt happen as he wasnt wanted after 3 weeks! they didnt have the decency to contact the breeder to sy there was an "accidental" mating, only found out through and ad for pups so breeder took it from there, pups are seemingly all spoken for now!  hasten to add the dog used here is now  rehomed  for last 3 months and has been neutered by new owner and is thriving he has found a forever home!

This is a responsible breeders worst nightmare! I would still try, as has been suggested to buy all the puppies at the earlieast date they can leave their mother - this person obviously has no scruples and will not mind letting the potential owners down. He/she may just jump at getting the money sooner rather than later.

the ad was ony posted a few days ago and pups are ready to leave ths weekend ! we may have found out too late! this is not looking too good for the poor pups, breeder is getting nowhere with them, they arent prepared to listen :-( why are people such b********'s??!!!

If at all possible I would go there straight away waving cash to buy the pups!