My 2 and a half yr old bitch Georgia had a litter back in February and due to complications and a c-section we decided to get her spayed.
Yesterday Georgia was spayed and everything went well according to the vet ( I have always trusted this vet). On arriving home Georgia was placed in a large crate so she could recover in peace. Last night i placed the crate next to my bed and she slept well. At 7 am this morning I awoke to find her dressing had blood on it and so did her vet bed. Not too much though.
I got her out of the crate so that we could go to the garden to see if she needed the toilet but it became very clear that we had a bleeding problem. I got my sister up to hold a compress on the wound whilst I rang the vet. After an argument with the nurse (who would have preferred us to wait until 9 am to see a vet) we arrived at the hospital 7.30am. The vet ( a different one) took one look at her and said he would need to operate. I was told this would take an hour and to go home and wait for him to ring. After 2 and a half hours he rang to say he had just finished!!! She had been bleeding from where the left ovary was cut away and it had taken all this time to stop the bleeding, but that Georgia was fine, awake and on a drip. He wants to keep her in for at least 24 hrs to make sure she recovers well.
My question is should I be expected to pay the bill for today??? (The spay yesterday was £160.00. ) Today is going to be £200.00 - £300.00.
I feel extremely guilty putting her through all this and extremely angry at the vets.
When I go to collect her they are going to want the money, where I feel I need to discuss why this happened to Georgia with the original vet, before I pay them anything.
What do you all think?

HI Nicolla,
I feel bad for you & your poor "puppy". If I were you, I would definitely talk to the original vet. You should have them document on paper what exactly had gone wrong with her original spay & what needed to be accomplished by the second vet to repair it. I don't know of any spays that had this problem before.
After you have what exactly occured, you might call around to other vet clinics and discuss what had happened to get their impression. There could be liability issues, but I'm not sure what responsibility your original vet had in the first place & I don't know English Consumer Rights.
What breed is Georgia? Just out of curiousity. I hope everything works out for you both. Best regards,
Sara

Hi

Georgia is a labrador.
We have just been to visit her and the original vet who did the spay was there. She had popped into surgery to collect something but at least she took the time to come and speak to us.
She said it is just bad luck and sometimes it happens! She also said she had been extra careful when tying off because it was Georgia and she knew I was extremely worried about it.
Georgia is staying in the hospital tonight as both the vets thought it was best. It helps that the nurse on duty tonight we know fairly well and she has promised to look after her and give her loads of cuddles.
She's still on her drip but have arranged that she will have milky water later as she doesn't really like water. Stupid I know but guilt is setting in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have also promised her as many bones and treats as she likes when she is well enough.

Hi Nicolla,
I'm glad that Georgia is much better. The poor dearie. It sounds as if you have a very conciencious (sp?) vet & she did her best to prevent this.

It's up to you how you handle this extra cost (obviously).... I do know from working in at a vet clinic long ago, that they do their best & costs just add up. Anethesia is not cheap & she was under for 2 hours.

Good luck with your girl & don't beat yourself up. You prevented future risks of of unplanned pregnancy and helped to reduce her risks of cancer. You & the vet did the best you could do under the circumstance. Be proud of that. She's much better now, thanks to you reacting as quickly & as firmly as you did.
toodles

hello, sorry to hear what happened and i hope she is now all ok.
It is very rare for post op complications from spaying but ligatures can slip and result in bleeding - i have said before on other posts there are some major arteries involved ! and it is a good job you noticed it when you did. with regards to the cost i would not be prepared to pay for any remedial work caused through post surgery problems - as this wouldn't have happened if us humans/vets have operated (i do of course recommed spaying 100%) I would only be prepared to pay for drugs used etc and not the vets time, we don't charge our clients if wounds breakdown or any post op problems, certainaly my vet doesn't charge for his time. I would question this with the original vet who operated on your girl if you argue your case they will usually alter the bill (so i find !) and please don't blame yourself as the previous poster said you have done the right thing in having her spayed and once this is over you know she will be fine. Hope this helps and good luck !!

I agree with you Chloe. Since you are a vet, you know much more than I do concerning current vet costs & responsibilities. I just try to stay out of the "consumer advocate" arena since I don't know UK consumer laws at all. I have little basis to advise someone to go on the polite warpath about costs & paying up for them. I was just giving her ideas on where to go for second & third opinions.
toodles

i'm a vet nurse ( i wouldn't wish being a vet on anyone !!) far too much responsability !!!!!! and who said anything about polite warfare !!!!!! lol

Hi

Thanks for your replies.
I spoke to the nurse looking after Georgia about 10pm last night and she said she was doing well and had started to wag her tail. I hope to speak to a vet today and hopefully she will be home then.
The vet who did the repair just keeps saying it was not life threatening and didn't like it when I told him I didn't agree, and that losing that amount of blood was extremely serious in my book!

The last spay I had done was 4 yrs ago on a rotti and she was suffering from incontience within 24 hrs. I have always said I would not spay again and now when I have this has happened. I know problems are rare but 2 out of 2!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think we will try Chloedogs approach of paying only for the supplies etc and NOT for the vets time.

If I were you Nicolla I wouldnt pay the second charge. It was as a result of their negligence that they didnt do it properly in the first instance.
Hope your Georgina is doing OK. All the best.

Bec posted at the same time !! at last something we agree on !!! :d

I agree with Bec too:D

Last year my cat was ran over and had a dislocated hip which the vets put back in- it came out- they put it back in again- but it came out again (nobody's fault really- it's really hard to get a cat to rest and not jump up anything)- they operated to remove the ball and socket joint and the vet said as they'd already tried unsucessfully twice to put the hip back in place they only charged me half price on the cost of the operation. I still adds up though doesn't it!

Hope your girl's soon doing better- don't feel guilty- it sounds as though you've done everything within your power for her and no one could have done more and the dog couldn't ask for more:)

Stacey

Well Georgia is now home and in a crate. She looks well enough and is happy to be home.
When I arrived at the vets I was greeted by a vet who said Georgia was well but would need careful monitoring in the next week. We have to go and have her checked over everyday. She also said there was no bill to pay and that she hoped we understood that these things are very rare and that they had done their very best for Georgia.
I was just happy to take her home and it has made me realise that you never know when they will be taken from you so make the most of the time you have.

Good- re the financial side of things. I'm so glad for you Nicolla that Georgia is home and well:)- shame though as I can't help but think the situation could have been avoided regarding the second op:(

I'm happy that Georgia is home, safe, & your vet absorbed the cost. Very decent of them. Hopefully, no more emergencies or anything else to go wrong.

You were saying earlier that 2/2 bitches spays went wrong for you & you never want to do them on another dog again. Perhaps it was because they were mature adult females that both of them had problems. The younger one is, the easier surgery & recovery is. I've had a lot of spayed females, but they were always "fixed" from 4-8 months depending on when I adopted them. Except for Pepper. She was 7 when she was spayed & 8 when she came into my home. She had false yearly heats and had breast cancer at 7 yrs. I had more problems with her health than any other of my spayed bitches.

I hope this doesn't permanently sour you on spaying/neutering. Sometimes it just has to be done. You were looking out for the health of Georgia's future. Again, don't beat yourself up about this. You've done the best that you can & I applaud you fighting to get her to be seen earlier than the nurse wanted you to come in. That took guts.
toodles

Hi

The first bitch was only 9 mths when she was spayed but still had problems.

I will probably spay in the future, I know it's better for them health wise. But I need to get over the shock and anger from this episode first. Mind you I feel much better now she's home. All afternoon she has been laid on the sofa whilst I sat next to her just holding her. Whenever she went in the crate I found myself checking she was still breathing:D
I feel like I've aged at least 10 yrs this weekend.

what a lot for you and your dog to go through if i was in your position i would change my vet ,and refuse to pay . spraying is supposed to be a straight forward operation ,i compare it to having a tooth out that is ,and i was sad to hear that you dog had to go through all that rally hope some thing can be worked out

ukyorkies, I don't know if you are male or female but I can assure you having a hysterectomy is nothing like having a tooth out.:(

thank you for your nice reply i am female ANIMAL lover just for the record giving my opinon about my loved dog who was sprayed at an early age, i have male dogs as well the operation went very well and to MY dog it was just like having a tooth out i went to fetch her expecting her to be ill ,and to my suprise she got up and walked to the car .or putting it plainer ,my dog was feeling like i would feel after i had a tooth out .

I've had teeth out and felt like death warmed up - I had a c-section and was running up the stairs after 2 days. Sometimes major surgery is easier to deal with.

Fiona
x x x

so pleased to read georgia made a full recovery in the end

I wasn't really referring to how the dog might feel, or appear to feel, I was referring to the fact it is major surgery, the arteries to the uterus for instance have to be severed, more serious surgery than a C-Section in fact Issysmum :) What worries me most, infact, is that people observe their bitch appearing very well and often don't appreciate the danger for instance of allowing them to mobilise too much, on and off of furniture etc. I have nothing at all about people choosing to spey their bitch (both mine are) but I think the seriousness of the operation should always be weighed into the decision and I definately stand by my statement that it is nothing at all like having a tooth out.

Georgia definately didn't look or I'm sure feel like she'd had a tooth out.
Since the spay and further op she has had an infection in her scar and in her front leg where the drip etc was.
Today she is going to have her stitches out and I hope that is the end of it!!!

The poor poor baby, Nicolla. I hope this is the last of her drama... just for her sake :) Good luck.
toodles

I have a freind whose bitch had exactly the same thing happen with her vet, and although she kept telling the vet the bitch was ill ( while the dog was still in the vets care) he would not take any notice. The poor bitch died ( internal bleeding) and my friend refused to pay any of the bill and quite rightly so.

Oh god you have mad me really worry now. I have my Molly booked in to haver her op in a few months time. Don't think I am going to do it now. She as been through enough? What if it went wrong, now really worried.

But glad your dog is making a good recovery at last. Poor lass.

Julieann

Julieann- I don't mean this funny at all;)- I could get ran over by a bus tomorrow but it doesn't stop me crossing the road- if you know what I mean:D :D :D Remember I'm sure these cases are only very sad exceptions- my friend works in a vets and it's not very often things go wrong. Just think if you don't have her done and she gets pregnant- there's also a small risk you might lose her;)

Stacey x x x

Hi Juliann,

As you probably know we lost a baby to cot death 3yrs ago. She had other problems as well, including heart and brain problems that were almost certainly genetic.

10mths after she'd died I fell pg again. There were huge risks associated with the pg, but we wanted another child. Unfortunately Issy does suffer from the same heart problem and we're not sure if there's been any brain damage. We won't know that for a few years yet.

We knew the risks were there with having another baby but we still went ahead and had Issy. We had confidence in our doctors and trusted them with our baby.

Please don't let the horror stories put you off having Molly spayed. If you think that the operation is the best thing to do, and you have confidence in your vet go ahead and have it done. Don't forget, people only really discuss the horror stories as they're so unusual.

Good luck with whatever you decide, and try not to worry too much (easier said than done I know).

Fiona
x x x

Hi thanks for the advice. This was not the first time that I have read what can happen to bitches if their operation goes wrong. I just am over caring with Molly and just could not bare anymore pain and heatache for her. But being sensible yes she will still have her op as I no its the best thing for her. Fiona you have been through such hard times thanks for sharing it. And Stacey your right you never know what is round the corner??..

Julieann

Julieann

I'm sure your bitch will be fine. My problems should just make us all more aware that there can be problems, although they are very rare. As long as you know what to look for problem wise it will help you to act quickly if you need to.
It is rare and there shouldn't be any problems. Good luck.

nicolla

Thanks for the reasurance! (sorry about the spelling!) I am sure Molly will be fine. But becasue she is four years old now that we think she is anyway. Does age go against a bitch having this op? That too does worry me as Molly is not a pup?

Julieann

Julieann,
I think Molly will be just fine. Don't worry....it's useless & drains your energy away right when you need it. The only thing that might be off is that she could have false heats yearly. No biggie. Just kind of odd, but much easier than the real thing.

She might have problems at first with incontinence, too. If she does, ask your vet for something like Caniphedrin...homeopathic & regular vets should have it. It will help her out real quick & not harm her. But relax & take things as they come. Everything will be ok. Statistically, problems are rare. Remember, we'll be always here if you need us for support :)
toodles

ok, i know that i am worrying unneccessarily, but what was it that made your friend think there was something not right with the bitch? I am asking because cleo has just been spayed, and is desperately lethargic - wont move and has slightly dull eyes - i know that this is probably due to the aneasthetic, but just want to check that i'm not brushing it off when there could be something amiss. She is refusing food and water, and can't barely bring herself to lick her lips when i put water on them.
Please someone tell me that i'm almost certainly concerned about nothing. I have never had a bitch spayed before, or any other dog have an operation so i don't know how they "are" afterwards.

How long since the op (hours)? and is she normally a brave girl or a wimp (if you know what I mean)

hours - but i am a natural worrier, and when it comes to me little girl i am the worst; she had been though so much recently. And admittedly she is a complete wimp - but i just wanted to be aware of any problem signs before it becomes a problem, if you see what i mean. Like i said i am probably worrying about nothing, but are their any signs i should look out for? She makes it look as though walking is difficult also (she has her stiches at the bottom rather than the side of her belly) Oh, and i don't know if this means anything, but her ears are REALLY hot...

Cleo,
Walking is going to be difficult for a while anyway. I'm amazed that she is even walking without support so soon after. This is what happened with us.... just so that you might have a guide of sorts.

Chienne had her spay at 5 months old. It was finished around 11am. I picked her up at 5pm. Michael drove us back because she was "floppy puppy"-- basically dead weight. Her eyes were open, but no one really home.
She moaned at about 8pm & slowly wagged her tail to tell me she had to "take a break." I took her out & gently cupped her chest in my hands to give her support so she could pee standing up. She was so wobbly. I carried her back inside.
I remember watching tv at about midnight, when it seemed that a switch had been turned on. She was lying next to me...looked up, her eyes were sparkling, & her stubby tail was going a mile a minute. She wanted water and she wanted it now!!!! But she was still wobbly... just not dreamy wobbly anymore. The anesthesia had finally worn off. She didn't want food until about noon the next day. She was happy with an ice cube.
Keep her from jumping for at least three days (onto the sofa, bed, whatever). I know its hard. It's just not good for the sutures. Warm ears are not a bad sign, in fact, much better than cold ones. Her circulation is going ok, it sounds.
Just keep an eye on the sutures if you can. Chienne's were left open to view. Samma was in a body stocking...but ended up slicing through it to remove her own stitches in 48 hours. The dr. was impressed with her skill. Not happy about it, but.......we just kept a watchful eye on her to make sure that infection didnt' set in.

good luck dearie...we'll be here if you need us.
toodles

Thanks Sara, its good to know other peoples experience. Just had cleos favorite person (our carpenter oddly enough - he lets her get away with everything) come round just to say hello to her, and tail was thumping like mad, but no movement, which is good. Am being over-protective mummy once again - god forbid i have children! I have her big "bucket" available if she decides her stiches are tasty, and she willl have to have it on when unsupervised, but otherwise iu figure she will be happy to be a big fat lump on the sofa: 10 days of lead walking around the block twice a day isnt going to be fun in a couple of days though - this is a dog who is used to 2 hours of haring around after a ball a day... Oh well, the trials and tribulations!

Oh, my dear, I'm laughing that you think she'll be patient for 10 days :D I'd give her only 5 days to be chomping at the bit again, so to speak. You'll be trying to limit her & she'll be all exuberant :D

Her bucket I assume is the white collar? Don't know if the term is the same over there, but it would be rather humorous if you did not refer it by what we Yanks call it .... E- collar -- short for "Elizabethan Collar" :D :D :D I do think that the larger the dog, the less likely it is to bother the stitches. Don't know why, just so, in my experience. :D

Relax & focus on your school stuff. I know you have heaps to do still :)
toodles

No, i know that she'll be a nightmare once the bank holiday is over! Call the colar a "bucket" cos she has such a thick neck and short muzzle that it looks massive on her.
Tell you the truth, she can get all exuberant even after her 2 hours of exercise, so life sure is going to be fun
On the school stuff, i thinki'm going to cry :D, printed off about 400 sheets today, which are now safely ensconced in a drawer ready for when i can actually face reading the stupid things! :(

Hi Alex,
I hope your "puppy" is better today. Were the 400 pages that you referred to...what you had been writing, or was it downloaded from articles & such? I'm impressed if you have written all that. :D :D
toodles

God no, i don't think i could ever wrie that much! Just printing stuff off to help with my research - as close to actually doing any work as i get for quite a while!
Cleo is much better today, though still not quite there yet. She has had some food, but no water though she is not dehydrated. Walking seems much easier as well. She has not yet even looked at her stiches, so thats a good sign - i am not even sure if she can reach them being the shape she is, but when she feels better i am sure she'll have a damn good go! Got to go and fit one of my t shirts on her now, just to stop her thinking about it too much!

Cleo.... it takes about 24 hours sometimes for appetite to get back to normal. If it's longer than 12 hours since she had her operation, her lack of thirst might be a worrysome sign... then again, maybe not. It takes time for the anethesia to get through the system. Different dogs react, well, differently. When was her operation?
Toodles

It certainly sounds like she is still groggy from the anaesthetic. If she was bleeding internally you can expect it to ooze through the wound and through the dressing. You can also check her gums for colour, should be good and pink. Don't worry about the eating at all but continue to encourage her with fluids, you could disolve a little sugar in the water to make it more interesting or glucose if you have it. If you are still not happy give your vet a ring and discuss it with them they will now if it was a difficult spey for instance and maybe she was under a little longer than some.

Why are you going to pay when he should have done the operation properly
i would be very annoyed with the vet. and I would be thinking of compensation from them ,Not you paying more ,How would you feel if a doctor had done that on you
not very happy with him.

Patricia, haemorrhage certainly is a risk following human hysterectomy, something that should be explained when the patient is asked for consent. Even the very best surgeon will have it happen occasionally and it would not be regarded as negligence if all care had been taken.

This is something slightly related, but one of those Awww moments I had when I was dating my husband 10 years ago.
While we were talking about future kids & birth control matters he brought up the fact that after we had the children we wanted, he would be the one to do the "permanent" operation...a vasectomy, just because he knew it was major surgery for a woman & he didn't want to run the risk of losing his wife (me) when it is only "minor" outpatient procedure for the male. He also knew the recovery time was much longer. He still is in favor of it...someday, which helps me out because the pill is horrible for my moods & health.
He's such a sweetie & I'm really starting to miss him. I'm ready for him to return now, but I still have 6-8 weeks, so hopefully I won't get too maudlin on the board :o
toodles

Well bless him Toodles :) Don't let on sterilisation is not really MAJOR surgery for women even though they do need a general anaesthetic its usually done laproscopically. It's just a local anaesthetic for men though so it is better if they have the courage, sadly lots of them don't :)

Well, this was 10 years ago & things have changed greatly in the field of medicine ....still, if I'm the one to go through pregnancy & childbirth... I think it's the least he could do :D