Well, in short this is the one problem we are having with Tamino in ring training. :)  With this breed (Swedish Vallhund) I can only bait or free stand, and its not going too well.

On the table he stacks himself nicely and isn't scared, but thats because I've been working him on the table since he was 10 weeks old. :) He gaits perfectly, if I do say so myself ;)

But...........

We are having trouble with the free standing and baiting.  When we come to a stop after gaiting, he has a very sloppy stand.  And sometimes when I have the bait he sits :shock:  though that is partly my fault.  We are training for BH, and I've not always been as diligent with the ring training as I have been with the BH. 

He is better since I've been using the clicker, and he only sits about 35% of the time now.  But he is sloppy with his hind legs (I've shaped the front feet well enough).  Is there a way I can get a bit more lift to his head?  And at least for him to stand square?

Can you help me? 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890948101/qid=1101117028/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_8_6/026-7608944-4063650

Oh, a clicker training book .....nice of you to say :rolleyes:

Are you holding the bait a bit too high?  This sometimes makes them hunch and will certainly intice him into a sit.

Try it lower and teach him to walk backwards with you hand held low. You often find that they square themselves up as they walk back.

Make sure the bait in the ring is his favourite and keep it only for when you are actually at a show, often you can get a bit more sparkle that way.

The clicker is great for training, but you might not be looked on too favourably in the ring if you start clicking, you could substitute it for a click with your tongue if it is working.

Sandra

Try teaching a back command.  I had this problem with Grace (Rottie) in getting her to line up properly.

Stand with your legs apart and put a treat through your legs, the dog should go forward for the treat but come back to look at you, as soon as the dog goes backwards, click.

This worked a treat for Grace and if I say "back" now she will shuffle into position practically un-noticed.  Feel free to email me (alnicholl@aol.com) if you want me to go into further details.

Another tip is to use something that gives a clear indication that standing is the game.  Mine are all taught obedience but they know that when the bait bag is on, standing is the game.

At home practice-when you come to a stop, if its sloppy walk into him, gently, so he has to back up-just say nice things as your walking into him  :D    if you do it everytime, and praise when hes back off you-soon al youd need to do is finish and just lean your body as though your coming toward him-he should if youve done it right and made it fun-take a step back and be stood right waiting to see whhere your going   :D      it will work if you do it the right way,

Thanks everyone. :D 

Thome, I'll try to get a hold of that book.

Dizzy, Keeper, and Sandrah, I'll try some of that. :) 

One thing Dizzy, stupid question I know, but anyway. He's also being trained for obedience (someone told me that you can't do obedience and show with the same dog, so I set about trying to prove them wrong :rolleyes: ), so will this have an effect on his automatic sits?  Or will he know  we are working on something else as he'll be wearing a different lead/collar and my body language is different?   

Id guess that  if you stay sill and give out a firm sit command, hes going to see it different from doing an up  and down the mat with a stand at the end of it----just be careful you make your actions clearly different, or if you lean forward on a sit he may pop up away from you,

LOL Mel :p

I do both obedience and show and have found two things really important when starting out -

1 Teach the sit and the stand as separate exercises, so they know the difference.

2 Use a different lead for show training to obedience training.

It is rubbish when people tell you that you can't do both.  You can, you just have to put in more effort.

Good luck
Sandra

I use same lead for both obed and showing (and sometimes agility lol) and have never had a problem. I taught the stand by having dog in front of me, standing to the side (ie its face not looking at me) and moved my hand to the right, getting dog to follow. Never ever had a problem, both bc's seem to be able to recognise the difference between showing and obed.

Char