Suzique, we *asked* you what you meant by an ambiguous statement. When you eventually answered, I apologised. I am not going to retract the question though

HI i LIVE WITH A PACK OF BASSET  HOUNDS WHICH ARE EXERCISED EVEY DAY RUNNING FREE ON CANNOCK CHASE, MY HOUNDS LOVE TO HUNT    --- MY  HUSBAND!!!!!! THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN AND WILL NEVER BE ALOWED TO HUNT WILD LIFE. BOTH HUMANS AND HOUNDS ARE VERY FIT AND NEVER MISSED THE SATISFACTION !!!!!!OF A KILL OR THE TOT OF WHISKY AT THE LOCAL PUB WHICH MOST BASSET HUNTS START AND FINISH WITH(OF WHICH I HAVE ATTENDED IN THE PAST) I FEEL THAT THE HUNTING COMMUNITY HAVE KNOWN THIS BAN WOULD BE ONE DAY COME INTO FORSE ,SO WHY CONTINUE TO TEACH THERE YOUNG HOUNDS TO HUNT AND KILL WHEN BY NOW THEY COULD BE DRAG HUNTING WITH THIER HOUNDS, AND  HORSES HOUNDS AND HUMANS WOULD STILL HAVE A HEALTHY PROSPEROUS LIFE STYLE.WITH OTHER PEOPLE WHO FEEL LIKE I DO COMMING AND JOINING YOU ALL. ONE QUESTION TO YOU ---- I LIVE IN A PAST MINING COMMUNITY,  5 MINES HAVE BEEN CLOSED IN CANNOCK ALONE, LEAVING THOUSENDS WORKERS UNTRAINED TO GO TO OTHER JOBS, AND MOST WITH BAD HEALTH MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO FIND OTHER JOBS TO FEED THEIR FAMILIES, AND ONLY HAD MONTHS TO PREPARE THEMSELVESFOR THE CLOSURE ----- DID YOU STAND WITH THE DEMINSTRATERS WHEN THEY CALLED FOR THE COUNTRY TO STAND BY THEM ? THE GOVERMENT IN POWER AT THAT TIME STAMPED ALL OVER THOSE MEN ,AND A LOT OF THOSE MEN HAVE DIED YOUNG AND BROKEN!!!!!!! SORRY I DO NOT FEEL IT IN MY HEART TO VOTE NO TO THE BAN    HOUNDGIRL

Good for you :) Please don't post all in capitals, it makes your post extremely hard to read and is considered to be *shouting* on the net ;)

Thanks for your advise, but on this occassion i was shouting and then we may just be heard  houndgirl

I hope that they do Houndgirl. My Grandfather was a miner too, so I do sympathise.

There is no need to shout :) The people involved with the thread will usually read all replies ;)

This reply isn't directed at anyone in particular, but as the thread is getting long it's hard to find the correct place to jump in :D

  Regarding 'Class Wars'.....I seem to recall reading another hunting thread not so long ago where people were labelling anti hunt folk as unemployed (or words to that effect), boasting about insults they'd shouted. So reading the references to class in this post strikes me as the pot calling the kettle etc

I think it is such a highly emotive subject you either feel strongly one way or another and you'll rarely find a middle ground.

Hi Spook, i do agree this is a very emotive subject,  every one needs to make a living and find hardship if jobs are taken away for what ever reason.but in the case of hunting i do feel that the years that this ban has been on the cards, the hunting community have had plenty of time to redirect their way of life to continue their sport without breaking the law.

Your spot on Houndgirl. You're preaching to the converted, I also live in what once was a mining village, I've watched the shipyards close and the army regiments be disbanded. I watched the debate on Countryfile and the comment that stuck with me the most was, "there are excuses but no justification".
Whenever there has been a poll on foxhunting in the national papers the public has always been against it by a huge majority. I think times have changed and the sport needs to move with the times. I became active in animal rights in the late 80's and remember how infuriating it was seeing the poll results in black and white then watching the House Of Lords continually block a ban. I just don't think it's acceptable in todays society.
I don't want to stop the riders having social events, but if culling is a nessecary evil I'd rather see it done in a fashion that 'I' consider to be humane by a recognized qualified person.
:)

My grandfather was a miner, so yes, I have every sympathy with people whose way of life is treated with disrespect.

Well call me a cynic but I have to hand it to TB and his advisors, I can't recall the last time any one in the news mentioned the Pensions Fiasco or the Rights/Wrongs of being in the War in Iraq, altogether a success story I'd say :rolleyes: ;)

Houndgirl
I must live near to you, I walk on Cannock Chase twice a day with my dog. Couldn't agree with you more.  My husband worked at Lea Hall Pit, loved the job (engineer on the coalface) but the one pit strike hit him very badly as it turned men against men. Then he was never the same after they closed the pits, in the end he took his own life at 52 years

I am so sorry :( That must've been so hard on you. I hope life has got better with time.

To be honest Im glad that some people who are for the ban on hunting are finally taking a stand on this forum. Most people on this site are for fox hunting and there have been too many posts that I've read on here that are for the ban saying its wrong, stupid Tony Blair that we only want to save cute lovable foxes but in fact they are vermin etc.
Yes I know THE FACTS and with all these posts that say OR ARE IMPLIED
''People who are against the ban dont have open minds'' I find very silly. Just because people are against doesnt mean they naive. What if dog fighting was still going on? would you be happy about that? After all that was a ''tradition''. What if we were hunting dogs rather than foxes?
An animal is an animal and I am pleased to say I do not agree that these animals should be killed for the pleasure of others.
And if you dont want your bins to be raided put them out in the mornings :D

Who are you quoting there SaraN? If its me then you are not quoting me correctly.

A few questions for you pro hunts .
Part one ..........................................................
1,Do you think your doing a great job keeping the numbers of fox's down ?
2,Do you know the % of fox's you kill then ?
3,Do foxhounds kill fox's  and cubs instantly?
4,Do you know the percentage of lambs taken by fox's ?

Part 2..............................................................

5,Do huntsmen kill perfectly healthy hounds ?
6,what age are hounds retired and discarded?
7,Are hounds un rehomable ?
8,How do huntsmen train there pups to chase fox's?
9,Are many fox cubs killed every year for these pups to have the taste of blood?
10,Those pups that dont make the grade what happens to them ?
11, what happens to hounds that worry sheep/lamb on there land ?
12, are those hounds that need to be killed all shot or are there other methods?
..................................................................
These questions may help those who dont know much about your sport who wish to learn more.

Part one....

1. Yes
2. Can't speak nationally, but locally I would say about 25%.
3. Yes absolutely..
4. No, sorry can't answer that one, but its probably a very small percentage of lambs born, don't forget ducks, hens etc.

Part two.....

5. No
6. Usually about 7
7. Yes
8. They run them with the pack
9. Fox cubs aren't killed for pups to get the taste of blood
10. Hunts don't breed lots of pups every year & when they do they are usually either kept on or bought by other hunts... It would probably be a couple of years to realise a pup won't make the grade, in which case it would be pts.
11. Doesn't happen, well I 've not heard of it anyway, suppose if it did the hound would be shot, as would a dog that worries sheep.
12. Either shot or lethal injection.

Another point thats being discussed, the difference between 'hunting' & 'chasing', well, in my opinion anyway, I would have thought that dogs/hounds hunt till they find their fox/hare/rabbit..it then becomes the chase when the hunted animal bolts..

Hope this helps..

Geoff :)

"I dreamed, and lo! In this my dream the cranks had had their way,
Fox-hunting was forbid by law for ever and a day;
No more across the English grass might English sportsmen ride,
No more the scarlet coats be seen at winter covert-side.

But what of "Master Reynard" whom this law was passed to save
From the death that so befits him as a brigand wild and brave?
Alas! I saw quite clearly what must now become his fate
With none to stand between him and the chicken farmers hate.

The shot at dusk, the shot at dawn, the snatched uncertain aim,
The wounds that only slowly kill, the wounds that only maim,
The bitter gripe of poison and the burning rending pain,
The broken teeth and bleeding jaws that bite the trap in vain.

The roly cubs in summer dawns that scrapped and played amain
Are dying now by inches, for their dam comes not again;
She is lying at a dyke back with a gin upon her pad,
A broken bleeding sacrifice to sentiment run mad.

I woke and knew it but a dream; for yet old Reynard ran
As he did before the wolf-pack 'ere ever there was man;
I woke, and breathed a little prayer for fear of what impends;
'God pity Britain's foxes and save them from their friends'.

Dear Sashkameo, i am so sorry that your husband found the pit closure so hard to bear that he took his life, but sharing your sad experiance with us all may bring to light that for a man to find himself one day with an income to support his family and the next day without can break the strongest of men. Sadly i am now of to work tonight to nurse some of those men that suffered both mentally and physically when the pits closed . I do feel that a loss of a job can be overcome easier if you have time to prepare yourself and your family, if only the pit men had years to prepare like the hunting community . Please look out for me and my 9 hounds on the chase and come and say hello
Much regards Houndgirl

Houndgirl
hope to meet up with you one day on the Chase.

What about the Welsh ex-miners who follow hounds? There are plenty of them! Is it a case of 'take their jobs and then their hobby'?

I think that we were talking about ALL ex-miners in general, Welsh, English or whatever, does it really matter to have to nit pick so much?  This is a very good Forum for finding out information, but reading through some of the postings, when someone who does not regularly post states an opinion,
a few of the regular posters have to reply with some sarcastic comment, if they do not agree.
A Guest asked a question about breeding, it may have been something silly to ask, but she had about 3 irrevelent sarcastic replies before someone kindly answered her question.
Changing the subject,Thanks Spook for your kindly comment, yes life does becomes easier to bear but can never be the same, but thanks to my dog, family and friends it is worth living.

I think you are being unfair to suggest people nit-pick.
If you want an honest opinion you will get it here. If however you wish to as ask 'fluffy' board, there are plenty of 'yes' people around to agree with you. However your question may not be answered.

liberty

Spook,
I am middle ground, i am neither for or against the ban. I don't like the idea of killing a fox and would never do it personally, but i respect the freeedom of others to do it. I could never go shooting, but there are many who do, but thats their perogative. What i really don't like is the way this ban means the culling of hounds. THey can't all be rehomed, theres not enough homes for other breeds let alone hounds that are not house trained and have a specific job to do. They can't be re trained to drag hunt, because that goes against everything they have ever been taught. And anyway, drag hunting can not take place as most farmers will not allow them on the land if they are not killing foxes. It is also unfair to take away all these peoples jobs. As i said before i don't really like the idea of killing foxes, but it has to be done to avoid a population explosion, as hunting has kept numbers don for hundreds of years. Not culling the weakest (which is what hunting does) is going to change the fragile eco system, with not enough food for the foxes. I don't like the idea of it so i just don't do it.
What really annoys me is how everyone is so bothered by the ban, and all the atrocities of the  world are just allowed to be forgotten. Surely some things are more important? All the police power that is needed to uphold the ban (because those who hunt are not going to stop) is taking away police power that could be keeping us safe at night. What are they going to do anyway, lock up the entire hunt, horse, hounds and all?

i would throught the dogs will be pts,horse sold on as pets,

I think a lot more horses will go as meat, there is a very limited market for ex-hunters.  Especially the hunt staffs horses.  Majority are not suitable to be  pleasant hacks.  And very few people are equiped to kepp horses as pets.
bye
Gwen

There is also already more horses than there are homes.

only one of you replied strange that but at least you could pip up with what you think is the answers geoff

I have been looking into foxhunting and have found from what ive seen and read  fox hunting is a nasty evil sport .

I do not think you do a good job , why? because according to maff  you only kill 3% of the population which happens to be around 20.000 fox's :( a year.....
Farmers say that only 0.5% of there animals are killed by fox's
These fox's are not killed instantly like hunts people claim! post-mortems done on fox's by vets!  was shown that they did not die as quick as hunts claim.. a bite to the back of the neck kills instantly ermm this isent the case. I have a video to show what happens.
when a fox runs into a badger set or fox earth some of these are man made  by the hunts then the terrier man goes and gives the hounds this animal . sounds pretty fun dont it !

Is fox hunting simply about fox's ? No .
Hunts do kill perfectly healthy hounds Ive got some photos of these poor animals that are being killed when on the hunt.
Hounds normaly get shot at around the age of 5  .
Hounds most definatly are rehomeable Ive seen plently anyone want to see some pics ?
To train a pup fox cubs are killed to give the taste of blood .
Pups that dont make the grade are shot along with those hounds that worry sheep.and they do!
There have been many ways hunts have killed hounds ive seen photos of many hounds piled on train tracks  and  some thrown out of cars . it really is horrible
What do they do with these hounds once they kill them they just throw them away or feed them to other hounds they dont have respect for these animals and i dont belive they care about them .
They are not animal lovers we need to get that fact right so stop going on about the hounds you shoot them when you have no use for them .

There are many other things i go on about you can read more claims if you like .
[link] http://www.league.uk.com/cruel_sports/pack_of_lies/foxes_and_fox_hunting.htm[/link]And if anyone wants to see some photos or videos You can pm me if your not a hunts person there pretty nasty pics and wouldent want anyone to get a kick out of seeing them ;)
If hunts people can shoot there dogs does this mean anyone can ? I doubt normal folk would get away with it so why do they !
I am asking why im bothering to debate with people who enjoy doing the things i see in those photos /vids . so have decided not to post anymore on this sub .you carry on getting a kick out of killing foxs and hounds .
Those of you who dident know before what hunting is about I hope its opened your eyes a little :)

The link you give is LACS!!!!!

The are the pits as far as I am concerned, they spout a load of unsupportable evidence.

They are the ones who wear the balaclavas, and injure hounds and horses at meets in the name of stopping animal cruelty.

They are the ones who send explosive devices through the post to unsuspecting employees in laboratories.

They are the ones who as discussed on the tv last night send unmentionable objects through the post and threaten law abiding citizens.

They are the ones who release captive Mink etc. from farms, and expect them to survive in the wild.

They are terrorists.

I could go on but I won't!!!!

I wish I could actually say what I really think about them, and if you are a supporter of that crowd I will ignore anything you have to say in the future.

did i say i support them , but im glad you said that go ahead and ignore me :D same with all the rest of you hunts people  btw the info dident come from that site :D ;)

thought you weren't going to post any more on this subject?

I believe the LACS is not the same as the Animal Liberation Front, they are the ones as i understand who wear balaclavas etc. Hunt saboteurs may or may not be members of the LACS or members of the Animal Liberation Front, or neither of course.

But they aren't the same :)

Lindsay
X

They may not be the same, but they are all tarred with the same brush Lindsay.

One breed, but going in slightly different directions.

As to the video evidence and photographic evidence, that has been proved to be tampered with.

In fact on one occasion instead of letting the fox be killed swiftly and cleanly they kept it alive whilst taking photographs.

<As to the video evidence and photographic evidence, that has been proved to be tampered with.

In fact on one occasion instead of letting the fox be killed swiftly and cleanly they kept it alive whilst taking photographs>

Do let me know your sources for these statements I know one of the main LACS people & I'm sure both she & the RSPCA & the police would be interested as much of the video/photographic evidence is from the RSPCA/wildlife police covert operations unit-the culprits would face instant dismissal & CPS action

If you don't want to name your source on here please PM me as this is very disturbing I've just come off the phone with a senior  wildlife police officer officer & the last part comes under his remit & he is waiting for your information

Last time this was discussed didn't those rescued hounds turn out to be trailhounds, appologies if I am wrong, although if they were foxhounds I wonder what they make of their new lives :rolleyes:
I saw that last night Jayne, these people are incomprehensible aren't they!

So because you've read some rubbish somewhere you're an expert are you?.

I was giving you honest answers from my own personal experience, not, from some ill informed rubbish website, or, videos that lacs have made.

You say "the terrier man gives the hounds this animal" oh really now I wonder who told you that....apart from the fact that it is illegal, if a terrier man was seen giving a live fox to the hounds he would be reported & prosecuted

Its people like you, who talk such utter verbal cr*p that gives hunts a bad name...

I can't be bothered to reply to any more of this rubbish......

Liberty
I wasn't saying ALL people in general nit pick, I was refering to JG's remark about "what about the Welsh Miners." when we referring to all the men. I did say that some of the comments made can be very sarcastic at times by regular posters to not so regular posters, as this has been noted before, by reading through some of the topics.i.e ozzie72 remarks on 23.11.04 in the Guest section. Also someone else's reply to a question was "Look the weathers not too bad today, surely you could get out to play"?  Is there any need?  What is "fluffy" board anyway, and No, I do not expect everyone to agree with me, but everyone is entitled to a say without someone coming straight down on them, just because they are the majority.

A fluffy board is a board where every one agree's with one another, its a board where you'll never get an honest answer because people are too "fluffy" to hurt your feelings or say anything to uspet you in any way. Woe betide any one who voices  their opnion on a  "fluffy board" and tells it like it is.

there speaks the voice of experience eh Robert :D

My point about the Welsh miners in particular was because two nights ago there was a group of them on TV complaining about the people who, when they (the miners) took part in the Liberty & Livelihood March in London, were shouted at by people yelling "Where were you when the miners were on strike"! It was to point out that people from all walks of life hunt, and to single out the miners as being a case where, if you didn't support them then why should anyone support you, is puerile!