As each season goes by my chocolate labrador (Chloe) becomes more and more randy, she is 4 years old in January and we have decided that during her next season (due Feb) we should let her mate and have pups. We already have details of a potential stud who is fairly local. And we plan to keep 1 of the pups and will then get her speyed.
I know there are several tests she will need to have (hips, eyes...anything else?)before we let her have pups...what are they? And can anyone recommend a good book to buy to help us help Chloe through it all? Thankyou...Helen.

"The Book of the Bitch" by J.M. Evans and Kay White is an absolute must.
:)

It sounds like this is her first litter????  If so, isn't she too old, I know it would be classed as too old if it were a cocker spaniel.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

So far nobody has said anything about her age! Am now a little worried, as last year people said she was too young.....she is still very much a young dog springing about like a nutter but I suppose that doesnt mean a thing....ADVICE required please.

Labs shouldn't be mated before their second birthday, and I would say that maximum age for a first litter is 5 (early 5, not nearly 6). The ideal age in my opinion is 3 years old, so I would say next season is your last chance. Get her hips (and ideally elbows too) x-rayed and the plates sent off. It can take some weeks to get the results back. I'm assuming you know the potential stud's hipscore too?

Hels
what colour is the intended stud?are you aware she should not be bred to another chocolate?
Archer

It's yellow she shouldn't be mated to. Black is ideal.

The intended stud is actually chocolate, and Chloes parents and grandparents were all chocolate....there is a bit of yellow in the mix somewhere as two of Chloes siblings were yellow? Why should I not use a choc stud.....He has been with choc bitches before and produced some beautiful pups, he has also been with a black, but she hasnt had her pups yet.

What is Chloe's pigment like?

If chocolate is repeatedly bred to chocolate, the pigmentation and colouring can get very poor. I gather chocolate to yellow is even worse. I'm sure John (our resident lab expert) will be along this evening and will be able to explain best.

Chloe is very dark and glossy, her coat is looking really good at the mo and is really soft, we live in the Lake district and she swims in the lake almost every day.....a friend of mine has a chocolate also and her hair is a light almost straw like colour and it feels thick, matt and quite greasy.

I would guess that your friend's dog's breeding isn't ideal.

MMmmm.  Pigment is the colour around her eyes and nose etc.

One thing I have to say and that is that being randy is not a good reason for mating a bitch. It will not improve the situation and in fact will almost certainly make it worse. Be absolutely sure of your reasons for mating your dog before going any further. The number of Labradors in rescue is phenomenal and adding to those figures is not the way to go.

Both your bitch and the stud dog should be hip and elbow scored and hold a current (Less than a year old) clear eye certificate. Hips should be no worse that 15 total and with elbows, anything other that 0 should not be used.

Chocolate to yellow is not good in that you are likely to loose pigmentation. I personally would steer clear of chocolate to chocolate unless both have very good pigmentation. The risk is light (yellow) eyes which tend to give a bit of a malevolent expression, and poor pigmentation (reddish brown skin around the eyes and nose.)

The ideal colour dog to mate a chocolate to is a black dog which carries the chocolate gene. Something which needs a bit of researching.

Have a look at this web site. It is the best illustration of the inheritance of colour that I've seen.

http://livingwaterslabradors.net/color.html

My feelings are that you have left it too late. By the time you have found a good stud dog carrying the desired genes you will be out of time.

Regards, John

I visited this site for valuable information and actually it has made me feel worse, I am not an expert or a breeder just a loving dog owner who would like advice on letting my dog have pups.
To think that my reasons for letting her mate are because she is randy or otherwise make me feel sad.
Chloe is a beautiful dog and I would dearly love another labrador to complete our family, the proposed stud has a good pedigree and is dark like Chloe, we dont plan to breed champions just lovely labrador pups that will become loved pets....I now feel that I am in the wrong and to let her have pups not only at her age but with her colouring.. (She has dark brown eyes and her pigmentation, whatever that is, I think is dark brown?) would be unkind.
She will be getting her hips and eyes tested next month and I suppose we will decide what to do then.
Thankyou

Hels, I'm sure you understand that, with in excess of 40,000 labrador pups born each year (and hundreds being rehomed), it is vital to try to ensure that they are wellbred and healthy. It's for that reason that caution is advised, for the benefit of you, your bitch, the resultant pups, their owners, and the breed as a whole.

Breeding a litter is an enormous responsibility (and expensive!) And you did say in your first post that you wanted to mate her because she is randy! We can only go by what you tell us.
:)

You may not be an expert breeder Hels, no one is until they have learned a considerable amount about breeding. What you should be if you are serious about breeding is at least knowlegable about your chosen breed. You, if you breed, will be responsible for bringing lives into this world so you have a duty to do the absolute best for them. No one has said anything nasty and all I can say is that if you do not even understand what a simple, common term like pigmentation means, then you do not know enough to breed a litter without putting your dog's life at risk.

Enjoy you dog as a pet. Learn all you can about the breed then start to think about breeding with your next bitch. That would be the responsible way forward.

Regards, John

I'm sorry that it's made you feel worse Hels, but if valuable information is what you wanted, you'll not get better than you'll receive from John, who knows more about gundogs in general and labradors in particular than anyone I know!

Ideally your 'lovely labrador pups that become loved pets' would be capable of becoming champions too, if that's what their owners were interested in. Aim to produce the best - thousands of puppy farmers are flooding the market with poor quality ones.
:)

Hels,

One thing is for sure , hopefully one of the labrador people will reinforce this, if she is chocolate and has chocolate parents with yellow somewhere in there then she should ONLY be mated to a black dog. It is the responsibility of a breeder to make sure the off spring are as close to the breed standard as possible. Breeding Chocolate to Chocolate or yellow will only encourage poor pigmentation. Sadly because of the popularity of Choc as a colour and nothing to do with the actual breed it is very difficult to find good examples of the breed in chocolate colour. Most of the top winning kennels won't bring them into their lines.

Just read the dog world paper and it was commenting on the quantity of chocs bred for the pet fashion market.

Please don't fall into that catogory and do the right thing by your dog and your dogs breed.

Before even thinking about taking a litter do all the checks first and only when the prove to be satisfactory think about breeding her.

BTW dogs do not get " horny" as the years go on that is just peoples interpretation of a dogs behaviour. They do not have a long to be mated or have puppies.

Good luck

After a couple of days to think about things, we would still like to let Chloe have a litter, I am going to buy the 'Book of the Bitch' and am off to the vets this week to seek his advice.
I am going to ask the vet to check her over fully and if he thinks she is too old too have pups then we will make the appointment to get her speyed, if not we will go ahead with her hip xray and eye tests.Then begin the search for a better mate.

I just want whats best for her and would hate to cause her harm, or for her to have pups that could be poorly or the wrong colour.

Should she be too old then we will probably come back to this site to look for a potential adopted brother or sister for Chloe instead!! Probably another labrador as they are great dogs, particularly our own!!.

To be hip scored you vet needs to take the x-rays and submit them to the BVA/KC hip scoring panel. This will cost something like £120 depending on how much your vet charges for his service. The x-rays for elbow scoring can be done at the same time. Because twice as many x-rays are needed for elbows than are needed for hips the price is rather higher. Around £150 is about the average these days.

Eye testing can only be done by a qualified canine ophthalmologist. Depending on whether you get this done at a session organised by an individual such as I'm co-organiser of or at the ophthalmologists own surgery this can cost anything from £15 to £65.

The results of the eye test are available at the time of testing but the hips have to wait until the panel meet and can take up to six months.

Make sure the stud dog is also tested. The owner will have the certificates to show if he has. If the owner has no certificate then the dog has NOT been tested. I must add, to breed from untested dogs is irrisponsible and anyone doing so is doing a great dis-service to their breed.

Regards, John

Have you considered getting advice from the breeder of your bitch? He/she will know the lines really well and would be able to help you a lot more, as they will have the knowledge and experience of their lines

I'm not sure why you are so desperate and determined to breed and litter from your lab bitch. What's so special about her that you want to breed from her? We all think our dogs are the best in the world, but that doesn't mean we all have to mate them. Seems a bit Dolly the sheep to me, i.e. cloning her. If you think you want another like her, why not just go back to the breeder and get another puppy from him/her. Or is a a case of, like men not wanting to castrate their dogs, you think her maternal clock is ticking and she 'needs' to have babies?

Try to reconsider, especially her age. As most have said, if you really would like a similar dog, go back to her breeder and start again, using your breeder as your Mentor.  I have the most stunning bitch and have her pedigree going back 9 gen. It is impecable, Ch and Sh Ch. And of course I wanted a litter from her. As soon as I got her hip scores, there was no point in having eyes tested, her hip score was over the average, probably over excersise, but I was not prepared to take the risk that it may have been hereditary. My decision was NOT to breed from her. I contacted her breeder and I now have another good bitch, and as it happens another one coming next week, all for showing and as pets, not particularly to breed from.  I do breed, but I also know that there are other reputable breeders out there that can produce the lines and temperament that I want. Do not put your bitch at risk.
Kay

Can I just as a non Lab person agree with what others are saying. I have a gorgeous Stafford bitch, well bred and healthy. I wanted another - to many people's surprise and in some cases "dismay" I did not breed from my bitch, I went back to her breeder and when he had a litter I enquired and now have a 5 month old bitch pup. Who so far appears to be progressing well. She is similar to the older bitch in ways a pup may not have been because they are half sisters. Obviously I admire and like the breeding more thought goes into his breeding than just "I want to breed much loved pets not champions" because in each case the breeders of my bitches have improved upon their own bitches with the next generation. Yes they are ALL in pet homes occasionaly shown. But mostly I would say with little effort all are capable of being Champions. That is not big headed just the way it is. Surely you should breed to improve the genepool and your breed rather than just breed to be average?

Karen