Just as adopted children are generally (all the ones I know anyway) brought up knowing their circumstances (certainly they had been told by 3 years old, and it was never a hidden or taboo subject), I would expect IVF children to be told in the same way. As for guarantees - there are no guarantees in life, and if they are expected, the person is doomed to an existence of discontent.

joyce - why would they not be? I don't understand your point. What would be the point in keeping it a big secret that the child was born from a donated egg?

but to this day egg and sperm donors remain anonymous dont they?

I would think it far more likely to happen when couples divorce, remarry and have new families.

I understand that it *has* happened with children of divorced parents, on more than one occasion :(

The unfertilised eggs carry your genes just as much as the fertilised ones that are eventually born as individuals. Surely creating new life and reproducing is what all Life is all about? Enabling it to happen is good, not evil.

So those who've managed to accept their infertility or those who choose to remain childless are excluded from 'what Life is all about' then ?  Hmm.. interesting concept...

It is, isn't it?

Anyway, as your original post asked whether people agree with you or not, I think it safe to say that some do, some don't.

Joyce, what do you see as the purpose of life?

A very deep question, Melody :) Personally the purpose of my life is based on my Christian faith and beliefs.

I agree that the natural order is to reproduce but the fact this has been achieved for centuries without scientists meddling about, swapping and selling eggs and sperm, must say something.

As a Catholic, I also have firm Christian beliefs Joyce :) Also, I do think that to give other couples the chance of having a baby, if they so wish, is one of the greatest gifts we can give :)

Without scientists *meddling about* as you put it, we would probably all be dying in our mid 40s as they were in the dark ages. :)

Oh Melody - there's a huge difference between treating illnesses and dabbling in reproduction techniques. 
I've never heard of a woman dying from infertility - yes it's an unfortunate condition but not (in itself) life-threatening.

"I agree that the natural order is to reproduce but the fact this has been achieved for centuries without scientists meddling about, swapping and selling eggs and sperm, must say something."

Joyce, we seem to be selective in what we think Scientists should medal with.  We all drive cars that we never used to, we have the best of all technology. We fly , we sail all of which was not done years ago.    We are using technology to prevent cancers etc etc.   Just because it is something you don't 100% agree with doesn't make it wrong.   We transplant hearts, limbs, cells to save lifes is this OK but not the use of a egg? :-)))

I can't see what the big issue is here at all. I never understand people who are adamant that only selective things should not be helped along the way.

I don't agree with designing babies etc but we are talking and simple eggs here.

People of often say if it was meant to be then it would happen , we were given the ability to make it happen so that it can !! :-)

On a lighter note, I did have a little chuckle at Karen on Corrie last night when she said "I don't know what all the fuss is about designer babies, I think parents should be able to dress their kids how they want" :D

Yep - poor Steve - being dragged to bed every five mins too LOLOLOL

yes i fell about i love karen and i am gutted she is leaving

Hi Blue
You've confused me here - on the one hand you're saying that you 'can't understand people who are adamant that only selective things shouldn't be helped along the way' then you say that you don't agree with designer babies !

Might I suggest that you're being a bit selective ?

And if we're going to put human eggs in the same category as developing our cars, planes and boats then all I can say is heaven help us ;)

"Might I suggest that you're being a bit selective ? ",

I think quite the opposite if it helps others then it is fine by mean. I have an oppinion about what I agree with but that doesn't mean that because I don't agree with it , it is wrong !!! :-)) that is my point.

"And if we're going to put human eggs in the same category as developing our cars, planes and boats then all I can say is heaven help us ;-)"  We are a bit late for that ;-)

I have three lovely kids and feel privileged that I was able to conceive them naturally.

I know of someone who is going through the IVF at the moment and has been for a number of years unsuccessfully, she and her husband would make the most wonderful parents. Her infertility was due to gynie problems a few years ago.

If I was of an age to donate my eggs I would willingly donate them to this couple, or to be honest anyone else in their situation.

Like everything in this world there are some people out there who will abuse any system.
But personally I feel that the ones who are doing it for the right reasons outweigh the wrong ones.

Me personally I don't believe in playing with gods way to have kids or animals for that.... I think if people are not able to have children maybe that is god's way of asking them to adopt the children that are in need of a loving family....

I no of someone that went thro some stuff to be able to concieve and the result was twins. Then because there is something wrong with one of the twins not developing properly they aborted that twin so the other can have a better chance. If they both lived would of been born very early and the one possibly dying, now since there is one this one will still be born early but not as early....

I understand the need to want to have your own child but to ask of a baby to go thro that is too much, why not adopt a child and give one a home that they will never have?

I myself have two children and I was told I would have a hard time getting pregnant if I even could. If I couldn't have any I definatley would have looked into adopting.

This is a touchy subject and people will feel diferently about it, its one we will have to agree to disagree :) cause you really can't say unless you are in that person's shoe's. Me I could not donate my eggs, or hubby's sperm just because I couldn't.

Unfortunately some people will not even consider adoption under any circumstances.  For these people IVF is the only hope :(   Shame really because many children miss out through lack of adoptive parents.

Why are some of you so harsh, when you have never been in that situation.??
Not only is there a risk of over stimulating the ovaries, as Isabel mentiones, which can be fatal. There is also an increased risk of Ovarian Cancer. The egg collection process is also painful.

I personally could never donate my eggs, but have every respect for those who do.

liberty

yeah i had heard that it can be harmful if the ovaries are over stimulated. i am very fortunate to have four healthy children and my heart goes out to anyone who cannot have children as it must be awful but i could never donate my eggs as i just cant get past the fact that i would have 'children' out there that i didnt know. I know i wouldnt carry them or give birth to them but my husband didnt carry of give birth to our kids but they are his children and he loves them  and i would not like the thought of people who biologically belonged to me were out there even if they were with fantastic parents. I also wonder about the future if people do this more and more? what is to stop half brothers and sisters marrying one day? also it is different from adoption as with adoption people have the option and chance to posssibly either trace or find out the history of their biological parent. but with anonoymous donations that privelidge is withdrawn. i never knew my father and it does play on my mind especially when i had my own kids as to what he was like what his family were like etc. i dont look like my mum or any of her family i am the complete odd one out, out of 4 and its not nice.

Donor anonymity

Donors remain anonymous.  Under current legislation, clinics have a legal obligation to record a donor's name and some details, this information is not passed to any recipient or resulting child.  The Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990 (HFE Act) requires that the names and details of all donors must be registered with the HFEA. 

People aged 16 or over, who ask, can be told whether they could be related to someone they want to marry. The HFEA also has a legal duty under the HFE Act to tell adults, who ask, whether they were born as a result of treatment using donated eggs or sperm. 

The Department of Health currently have a public consultation 'Donor Information: Providing information about sperm, egg and embryo donors'.  The HFEA response can be viewed here, and the report on the consultation will be out later this year.

Taken from here

I thought I heard something that as of next year the child of donor sperm will have the right to know who the sperm donor was when they are older. And the clinics and infertile people were terrified that the people donating would go down, so not as much sperm to use as the ananomity will go and they will not want to be contacted in years to come.
May be wrong.
Lea ;)
(who would be a egg donor if I had the support. to scared while I havnt got anyone to support me, but often think about it)

Well said, katyb.  :)

In my opinion it is not just genes that make a child.  As has been said, millions of sperm and hundreds of eggs are wasted - they are not children, but simply 'cells'.  It is not until they are joined that they then grow into a human being.  That being needs careful nurturing to grow and anyone who provides that particular kind of nurturing becomes a parent, I believe. 

With regards to knowing who your parents are, not everyone feels something is missing simply because they do not know their biological parents.  I know someone who was adopted and had a loving family.  She has no desire to meet her biological family.  Incidentally, if you knew this family, you would never know she was adopted - she has the same intonations of voice and mannerisms as her adopted mother.  When I first heard she was adopted, I found it hard to believe.

As to feeling that you are missing something because you don't know who you look like in your family.  This can happen in any family - look at the white children who have been born to black parents, and vice versa!

Reproducing is what life is all about - that is a fact!  We are lucky in that for those who choose not to reproduce, or some of those that can't, do have other things in our 'civilised' lives that could fulfill them - a good career, great relationship, or whatever.  BUT there are some people, who because they can't have children of their own are desperately unhappy and it can leave a big void in their lives.  I feel that if people are willing to give them the hope of having children, then that can only be good.

I also think that the chances of one child from a donated egg, meeting and marrying/having a child with a half brother or sister is so small as to not even enter the equation.  I don't even see the point in telling the child the name of its egg donor (I deleted 'biological mother' here as I personally feel that if a person has given a child 9 months of care inside her womb then she has a claim to be a biological mother to that child anyway).

Fiona

while i agree with you to a point as joyce says it is still your child. my husband didnt grow his kids in his tummy or give birth to them but they are as much genetically related to him as they are to me. if i gave another woman my egg and she grew it and gave birth to it, it would still be my biological child. and as somebody mentioned although yes children who are adopted are often told i am not sure people can tell children about donor eggs or sperm surely? i am not sure how i would tell my kids that? i dont know half my background and it can be soul destroying and who u biologically belong to matters to nearly everyone.

i also think the qouteing of wasted eggs and sperm is a very weak argument as they are just cells they are not children but when these cells are turned into a child then its a child! then it matters

If you donate blood, bone marrow, or a kidney to another person, are they still yours? Genetically they are, but beyond that ...

Donated blood, bone marrow, kidneys, lungs, hearts et al will never ask the questions 'where did I come from - who do I look like - what is my ancestry'.

These comparisons present a very weak argument.

Deleted due to duplication.

Donation of body parts is only a matter of degree. And it is all 'messing around with science' and allowing people to live whereas left to nature they wouldn't.

Yes but with donating blood and organs you are saving the life of someone that already exists...............!

This is VASTLY different from providing the material with which to create life!

Thank you JG ...you at least saw the point :)

Obviously we aren't all going to agree on this subject so maybe it's time to put all the eggs back in the basket and draw things to a close.

Great debate though - and good that it didn't get nasty or too personal. :)

Joyce, my eggs were never leaving the basket; that is the whole point! :D :D :D

And you are of course entitled to choose for yourself. So is everyone else. Thank heavens for a free(ish) country.
:)

My eggs are past their sell by date unfortunately ;) :D

Are they not stamped with a lion, Mel? :D

*giggles* :D

"Donated blood, bone marrow, kidneys, lungs, hearts et al will never ask the questions 'where did I come from"  Off course the parts won't but the people who have blessed to receive them will !! and they DO all the the time.  They meet up with the donors families if the organ owner is now gone.

"very weak argument" but Joyce that is your view on it. It may not be quite the same 100% but it is science all the same.  :-)

We all have to be careful that we don't take what we believe in too far and without too much judgement. This is not directed personally at you but I find it incredible at times people that claim to have beliefs , including not looking down on others and do just that.   :-)

>Off course the parts won't but the people who have blessed to receive them will !! and they DO all the the time.

That was the whole point about the recent advert by the Blood Transfusion Service, wasn't it? The one where Gary Lineker was with the man who donated blood to save GL's son being treated for his leukaemia.

I am adopted and would like to say that my adoptive parents are MY PARENTS knowone else is, I do know where I came from and my birth parents but not knowing didnt mess me up at all, I dont feel sorry for any children who have been adopted or have been brought into the world by IVF, as long as they have love thats all that counts.

It's good to hear the point of view of someone with more experience of the situation than others, Zoe. I must admit it agrees with the opinion of other adopted children I know. They have no interest in their 'biological parents' at all.

I'm sorry, Blue, if you think I have been judgemental towards those who have a different view to mine (I know you say you are not directing your comments at me personally but...).

I do have strong beliefs and I hope that in expressing them I don't come across as looking down on people or judging them - that is definitely not the intention.

I certainly don't feel that those who have expressed opposing views to mine are looking down on me. 

Joyce, Wasn't honestly personally at you :-)  just we can as people beleive in something so much that we can't see anything but that if that makes sense.

I was at the time thining of a few of my in-laws who are very religious and so strong about their beliefs to the point were I think they do more harm that good ;-)

I know what you mean, Blue. :)

I think I've inherited my passionate beliefs from my mother (my biological one, that is !) ;)

joyce we have the same beliefs and opinions i think! to compare bone marrow or blood to a baby is a bit odd? i would happily donate blood or bone marrow if need be as it wont grow up and marry my son

sorry forgot to say the world only had ivf from 1977 and we got that far without it so although i think there is a place for it using somebody elses eggs i feel is too far