Please could you help my friend, she does not have a pc so i am asking for her. She bought a labrador bitch with the intensions of breeding with her, but when she signed the reciept she did not read it properly until she got home. When she read it, it stated that she could not breed the dog until it was 18 months old, (she was waiting until 20 months), also it stated that she had to return to them to use one of there dogs for stud, she was not too bothered about this as they do have some very good dogs, but she was a bit annoyed that they did not tell her this they just put it on the reciept. After many phone calls with the breeder they had a fall out over somthing silly, and she no longer wants to use there dog, but she breeder keeps saying that she does have to. There are no endorcments on the bitch, and when she phoned the kennel club about the situation they said try and sort it out between you. So the question is does she have to use them? What can they do if she does not? Please could you help her as i have no idea what so ever how she stands. Thanks

I don't know how she stands, but she really ought to wait until the bitch is two years old before mating her. I'm assuming her hip-score is satisfactory, and that she has a clear eye certificate?

It seems a bit silly to 'cut off her nose to spite her face' and not use what is possibly the most suitable dog for her bitch over a disagreement. JMO.

Yes the dog is fully health checked, and i do agree , i have told her she should use them but i think she feels a bit intimidated by the breeders.

Well legally - and this really depends on what the agreement actually says - i'd say if she went ahead and had a litter from another dog the breeders could sue your friend for the cost of a stud fee...unless the agreement stipulates a different penalty.
Don't foget if they did this and won your friend would also have to pay their legal costs too.

However i suspect they would not bother with the hassle - but you never know...

PS it is not an issue for the KC as there are no endorsements on the bitch it is a civil matter, however i would check with them, if your friend decides to go ahead what their reaction would be to a court judgement - they may decide to act then?

Me personally I would use one of their dogs cause Im sure they would have the best match and no what best compiments the bitch.... In all the breeders are giving them selves more work to do to make sure their line can stay the best it can be. Im sure if they didn't have a suitable male then they would find one..

My question would be if they breed with their male who gets pick of the litter or is it a fee? just wondering cause if you wanted a possible show puppy you hope you get one in a litter the reason for the breeding in the first place.  Then again if you don't like what is in writing you could aways return pup and get your money back.

I think they are wanting pick of litter.

Without anyone seeing the agreement in full it is a very grey area to comment. Dogs are sold however like any other item, ownership passes gaining all the normal purchaser rights so unless the contract is a fair one it is probably not inforcable BUT that doesn't mean it is OK to back out of an agreement morally.   Certainly not if it has been a decent breeder entrusting the person with one of her puppies.

Most puppy contracts sadly won't hold up in court and even though I have a legal background
I still am 100% in support of using them . The point of them is that it is an agreement that 2 parties enter into and one that is very much based on TRUST and RESPECT not really what is legally right or wrong.

One thing I find hard is that people sign things then claim not to have read what they have signed. Doing this allows for " Hell mend them" situations.  I am not saying this is the case wut when it happens nobody really knows the full 100% story.

Good luck

Check if the 'contract' that you signed is legally binding ( 99.9% of the time they are not) - the CAB may be able to help you with this. Usually even  endorsements can be lifted and a solicitor would propably judge this stipulation unfair. I am presuming that you paid the full price for your bitch and  that  she is fully owned by you and is not in partnership.
This kind of clause is great for breeders who will often stipulate 'pick of dog/bitch puppy'as well. Your bitch became your property when you purchased her  It is  NOT a legal reqiurement to abide by such contracts and you do not have to comply if you decide not to.
you will then be able to choose the stud dog that you want - please wait until your bitch is over 2 though and obviously only use health tested dogs of good type/temperament.

Breeders often use contracts as an indication that they want the best for the pups they sell - the most common stipulation being that te pup is returned to the breeder if the new owners cannot keep it. Breeding/exporting restrictions need to be in the form of an endorsement via the Kennel Club to have any 'teeth'

Thank you all for your information on this, i will pass this on to my friend. I know she will be very gratefull.

Hi Trevor,  Your very kind reply to this post, which gives such clear guidelines to all those who plan to breed unethically from bitches they have acuqired without breeding rights, reminds me why we sell our pet only pups without benefit of KC registration.  Please remember than many of us breeder place the restrictions becasue the dog or bitch are not of sufficent quality to breed from, or even more importantly that a hereditary problem became evident after the litter arrived, rendering them  not suitable to be used for breeding at all.  Of course such restrictions are best enfoced with both KC endorsement  and written contract.  In this case, I woud say it is in the bitches best interest for the  2 parties to try and talk reasonably. 
bye
Gwen

I too agree that both parties need to talk to each other but as breeders we do have to be realistic and not greedy This kind of clause is not in place to stop the owner from breeding but to ensure that the breeder gets a  stud fee and a free puppy !!!.  As you say if there were real concerns as to the bitch's suitability for breeding then a KC endorsement would have been put in place . It does sound to me as if both parties have fallen out and that the breeder is being less than helpful - of course we would all wish to give guidance and advice to buyers of our dogs when they are thinking of breeding from them but unless we sell a puppy in partnership ( and therefore do NOT ask the full price) then we have no legal grounds to insist on OUR choice of stud dog or indeed the 'pick of the litter'

Where does the poster say that the breeder will be demanding a stud fee or the pick of litter?

Sharon wrote " The breeders could sue them for the cost of the stud fee "
and Claudia ( oringinal poster) wrote " I think that they are wanting pick of litter "

"I think" is speculation, surely?

When I used my bitch's breeder's dog, I paid a stud fee but the two puppies that they decided they wanted to run on (both dogs and I wanted bitches, so no conflict there) were paid for at market price.

To set the record straight, they definatly want pick of litter.

Will they be charging a stud fee? Are they going to pay for the pick of litter?

It could be your friend's bitch is so good that going along with their advice could be the wisest thing. After all, the bitch is too young yet, and has plenty of time to have another litter after this one, to the dog of your friend's selection. Or are the breeders saying that all her litters will be with their dogs? That would indeed be unreasonable.

I have just spoken to my friend again and now apparently they want pick of liter plus £400 pound stud fee.
And on the agreement it states bitch must not be bred from until 18 months and must return to them for stud, so i don't think that would mean that she had to return to them every time.

Pick of litter and fee is OTT in my opinion. One or the other ...

I agree JG.  It wouldn't suit me, but if THAT was the agreement?????????!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps offering them the pick of litter as well as the stud fee, but at market price?

It all emphasises the importance of reading all the small print before you sign anything. :(

Why would the breeder not even tell them the terms, why did they just go and put it on the reciept without saying anything. My friend does feel totaly intimidated by the breeder, i know they don't mix there words.

Absolutely! 
But if folks accept the terms at the time, then IMO the agreement should be kept, whether in law or not.

But she didn't really accept them at all because she did not know they existed untill she got home, so in her eyes she feels she has been conned, which i can understand. If she did not go back to them, i know she is a very sensible person and would ensure that the male she picked was suitable and fully health checked, she would not just go to anyone.

Claudia, you say that your friend bought the bitch planning to breed with her.  Did she make that clear to the breeder at the time?
I'm afraid that, sadly, caveat emptor applies whatever you are buying if you are dealing with people that you don't know.:(
You say that your friend is very sensible and wouldn't use just any dog, but being sensible isn't a substitute for experience and knowledge, which I'm assuming the breeder does have?  If not, then it was not a good choice to buy from such a breeder in the first place.

Yes she did make it clear to the breeder that she was going to breed with her, as for the breeder, my friend was under the impression that they were very good at what they do. I know she has been told a few things since but apparently put this down to jealousy as they are very succesful