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Topic Dog Boards / Visitors Questions / pug not good enough for show
- By Guest [gb] Date 11.11.04 17:36 UTC
hi there,

I have a pug but unfortunately she did not make it into the ring as she has too much of a black streek down her back and her head is a little small.  I did pay a very high price for the dog and was wondering if I bred my girl to a better example of the breed I would get a better dog for show.  I am new to breeding and it is not a money issue but I am not prepared to pay £1000 for a show potential again and have it fail in the ring.  The breeder is up near Scotland and is only interested in selling me another show potential and not giving me advise on breeding.  I am not prepared to sell my little girl as she is a big part of the family, however, I would like another pug to take into the show ring.  Its amazing at how much and how quicky pups change,  please any good, honest, sound advise would be good. Please dont give me any grief about breeding as it is not something that I plan to do regularly, I just want another chance in the ring and to enjoy another pug as they are so addictive.

My kindest regards and thanks in advance to you all. 
- By Moonmaiden Date 11.11.04 18:36 UTC
You would need to find a dog that produced show quality puppies to bitches with your bitches faults & even then it would not guarantee you would get a show quality puppy

You may be better contacting breeder/exhibitors & tell them of your exact desires & they may be prepared to run on a puppy to make sure it will be good enough to show

Breeding good dogs is a science in itself & a good degree of luck of the draw is also involved
- By cooperscrossing [gb] Date 11.11.04 19:39 UTC
Would seem reasonable to me. 

Get in contact with the secretary of the breed club and utilise their knowledge and advice.
- By Val [gb] Date 11.11.04 19:49 UTC
Pugs are not an easy breed to whelp.  Bitches rarely give birth without some human intervention and without experience, IMO you would be putting your precious bitch at great risk.  I endorse all my pups registrations (not Pugs!) precisely to deter owners without knowledge from risking my bitches' lives. 
As you have found out, there is no way of being sure that a nice pup will grow suitable to show, so you could well be risking your bitch and still not have a pup to show!
I have proved with my line that quality bitches (even carrying the same bloodlines) are more likely to produce quality offspring, so I would hope that you will love your little girl the way that she is, and leave breeding to those who know what they're doing. :p
I'm sure that Gwen will see your post and advise as she has much experience with Pugs.
- By Trevor [gb] Date 12.11.04 06:14 UTC
unfortunately pups don't come with any guarantee that they will be top show prospects - so many things can and do go wrong  and particularly with a 'head' breed like a pug. If your bitch has obvious faults then these may well be passed on to her pups and then you will end up with two dogs that cannot be shown. yes you may strike lucky first time and breed something fantastic but the odds will be loaded against you from the start. Why not spend some time looking at the lines that you really admire then put your name down for  bitch puppy carrying those lines to buy in as your foundation bitch, you probably wo'nt be offered the pick of bitches but 2nd or 3rd pick would be ok as  the genetics will be there. Then you should ask the breeder of your foundation bitch which stud dog to use to get a top quality litter. There are rarely short cuts in breeding top quality stock and in general it only comes by putting the best to the best. I know that my suggestions will mean that you will have to fork out a substantial sum to get the lines that you want but it will pay dividends in the future - we all 'stand on the shoulders of giants' when it comes to breeding dogs :D
- By gwen [gb] Date 12.11.04 23:42 UTC
First I would like to endorse all the excellent advise given in the above posts.  Unfortunately even the best most experienced breeder cannot guarantee which pup will be succesful in the ring.  As you observed pups change so much.  However, you should think very carefully about breeding form your bitch, and make sure you are prepared for all eventualites.  Firstly,  us her pedigree endorsed?  If it is you should discuss with the breeder the ereasons behind the endorsement, and if they ouwld lift it.  Then, are her good points sufficient to make at least 2 major deviations from the standard worthwhile. How familiar are you with her family, do any siblings (or parents/grandparents) have similar faults?  Does her breeder consider her to be of sufficient quality to breed from? Provinding that you feel happy about all the above points, you then need to do lots pf pedigree research, watch class after class in the ring, go home and look at pedigrees again, and talk to as many knowledgeable people in the breed as you can about the dogs you like, and their suitability with your bitch. 

That is the straight forwards bit.  Next is more difficult.  Is cost your only issue in wanting to breed rather than try to buy another show prospect puppy?  If it is, I woudl advise you to go for the puppy purchase option, as a disastrous pug whelping can cost a lot more than the price of a pup.  After paying  your stud fee (usually £400 to £500 in the breed) you have to appreciate the liklehood of needing a C section, and having that cash set aside.  Is your bitch from self whelping lines?  It tends to be hereditary in Pugs.  And you have to be mentally prepared for the disasters which can befall - the  least worrying being that she does not get pregnant, the most being you lose your bitch.  Aside from the heartache of losing a beloved pet you are also landed wiht large Vet bills.  However, if you do manage a succesful pregnancy, be prepared to have ot help in the whelping all the way.  I have yet to meet a pug bitch who does not find the whole business of giving birth either disgusting or a personal outrage!   Then there is the time needed to rear a litter.  Not being the world best mums, most pugs do not do all the care needed, you have to be on hand 24/7 to ensure all get fed 2 hourly, help with cleaning, and soothe mum when needed.  I had been breeding dogs for 15 years before my first pug litter arrived - I would  never have coped had it been my first ever litter - after a noisy labout, with Shirley wanting to whelp on the sofa,  she hated the pup so much on sight she tried to kill it.  Hand rearing was the only option - a 24 hours a day for 6 weeks job for me (and that one pup was the whole litter, much loved but  very sub standard in terms of breed attributes)
Finally (with apologies for such a long post) bear in mind that breeders with years of experience frequently breed litters which turn out not to contain a single show quality pup.  The chances of you gettng one on yoru very first litter are very slim.
bye
Gwen
Topic Dog Boards / Visitors Questions / pug not good enough for show

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