a friend of a friend had alitter of english bull terriers born a few wks ago, it was this bitches 1st litter but she is an established breeder, as soon as pups were born there were seperated from mum and brought back hourly for a feed an a clean the bitch showed no agression to pups this is what breeder does with all her litters, she said she was worriued they would be crushed, once they were a few weeks old she let them spend more time with mum. obviously this is a devoted breeder who set her alarm hourly through the night, but is it good fot the pups? or is this the norm in this breed?  ( just curious)

Well I certainly wouldn't do that, mum stimulates the pups to pee and poo, keeps them warm and calm..........if she's that dedicated then maybe she could sleep close by the pups and mum if she's worried about them being crushed.......I do this anyway for the first couple of weeks after birth.

  Thats what i thought but just wondered if this was something bull terrier breeders tended to do?

I believe that english bulls are sometimes far from the best of mothers...maybe this has something to do with it?
Archer

  must be a worry if mum isnt good with pups, id hate that, but apparantly this mum wasnt bad and whined when they were away!

duplicated post deleted

I have also heard that EBT's aren't very good mothers and regularly cause injury to their pups if left alone.
One breeder I spoke to, a couple of years ago, puts the pups in a crate next to the bitch and takes them out for a feed and clean as and when they need it. She said it was the most tiring(sp) breed she has bred. She never lost a pup through injury though so she must have been doing something right. Almost everyone I've heard of, in htis breed, has lost pups due to the bitch injuring them.
I saw a pup 3 months ago who had been injured by her Dam. Her poor little tail was in ribbons. As the pup had ran across the pen the bitch had grabbed it and shook it severely. The pup also had an injury to it's eye where it had been swung against the pen side. It was only 4 weeks old.

Yes this is quite a normal practice amongst bull terrier breeders. Myself included.Though I must stress that there are some bull terrier bitches that are excellant mothers. They do have a reputation of being clumsy, stepping on puppy instead of going around it. I have heard of some horror stories concerning bully bitches  and their whelps. Personally I would never leave a  mum and pups alone no matter what breed it is. I think a lot of breeders do it, more to be on the safe side than anything. You do not get much sleep for the first 2/3 weeks, I can tell you! My bitch was quite happy to be put on the sofa and let me put pups onto her, licking each one. My staffy helped out keeping pups clean too. I know some people will feel this is not the way to rear pups. It works for bullys.    Susan

I would trust the breeder to know whats best for her breed

   its very intresting actually, thanks to all that replied and it just shows not too judge someone till you know all the facts, when i first heard the story i thought the woman was nurotic !

Hi I would say as have others that EBT are not the best mothers in the dog world, a friend of a friend lost her whole litter as a result of ignoring her own bitches breeder and the stud dog owners advice to seperate the mom from pups 7 healthy perfect pups lost.

Karen   

"Personally I would never leave a  mum and pups alone no matter what breed it is. I think a lot of breeders do it, more to be on the safe side than anything."

Thats an interesting approach.  I've had seven litters (labradors, working cockers and Jack Russels - 4 different bitches) and have always left the bitch pretty much to her own devices from post-whelping until weaning. (Other than checking on her and the pups a number of times during the day) I haven't lost any pups yet.

Likewise, Havoc.

I wouldnt criticise anyone for the amount of care that they give to a bitch and her pups. However, I really feel that it is important to encourage natural mothers and where possible avoid breeding from bitches that are unable to either whelp or rear pups without significant intervention.

i suppose if ebt are that bad though if you did that you could almost wipe out a breed, i see your point though.

wow havoc & JG, you are very lucky. I am currently hand rearing a litter (2 weeks old tomorrow :) ) and sleeping with them all night & never more than 30 yds away. If I hadnt been sleeping with her I know at least 5 of the pups would be dead by now as I have pulled them out from under her as she crushed them!!! We lost 1 that way on day 4 :( and its only my vigilence thats saved the rest!!!  Maybe smaller breed just dont get this problem ?

Re: the bullies...heres just a thought that occured to me.....(no-one take offence please!!!) Maybe they are like that towards their whelps because they wwere not reared naturally by their own dam??? Maybe its a vicious circle and one problem is caused by its own cycle???

Good point Sam, about mothers not being reared naturally and it becoming a vicious circle. Like I said there are bullys that are excellant mothers. And I know its not every breeders ideal way of raising pups. I am not very good at expressing myself so please bare with me on my posts :-)     Susan

I have bred six litters in 24yrs.
From Yorkies, 5lb bitch and 3.5lb dog, to Siberians.
If I hadn't been there, at 1am, when my Yorkie had her pups i would have lost not only the one pup I did but the other two and the Dam as well. Pennybump was a fabulous Mother but even to a 3.5lb Stud the pups were too big for her to deliver. I had gone into both pedigrees and there were no big dogs in the ancestry. She and the pups were in my bedroom until the pups were 6 weeks old.
The Siberian I had a litter from, I had a Rough Collie at the time with a litter, was not interested in her pups until they were 3 weeks old. I had to 'tell' her when to feed her pups. The Rough Collie loved her, and the Huskies, pups. She ended up nearly bringing all 13 up on her own for the first 3 weeks. Left alone the Siberian would probably have left her pups to die. The Siberian didn't react like this because of the Collie having a litter as she had done the same with a previous litter.
With hindsight I would not have bred a second litter from the Siberian bitch as she obviously didn't enjoy the experience.

Off subject but something that interested me at the time.
The Siberian pups were around 12-16 ozs born and the Rough Collies were only 7-9ozs.
Although they were both medium breeds, and same weight, the pups of both breed were average weights.

I agree with the theory of the bitch not being mother reared not knowing how to rear it's own young but how would this be rectified in a breed such as the EBT????
My Bullmastiff's Dam lost her Mother at birth and was handreared. When she had pups she killed 12 of her 15 pups as they were born. Only 3 survived. At 2 weeks she started to attack them and the stupid owner 'gave' them away indiscriminately. This is how I came to rescue my Vinnie from drug dealers.