I've just found out that a breeder of Siberian Huskys has just had an 'accidental litter' of seven puppies from a bitch that last whelped 9 months ago. She has written to the KC, told them it was an 'accident' and they've said that as it's 'so close' to the year (!) that they will register them! Despite the fact that she told someone that she had no idea the bitch was pregnant, or which of her three dogs were the father, she has named one of the dogs as the father to the KC, as the other two dogs are the bitches sons and have had no health tests. Now the dog she has named has mated the bitch twice before with no results. She subsequently had him tested and he was found to be infertile! What is the point of anyone playing by the rules if people are going to get pups registered from bitches that just whelped 9 months ago and have a made up pedigree??!! They're no better than the DLRC!

So, what do you think the answer is Katys? The KC makes it clear that registrations rely on information given to them by the breeder and you have no more proof that the puppies aren't sired by the dog stated than the KC has proof that they are. If someone buys a puppy from the litter & can prove that the pedigree isn't as stated (by DNA tests, presumably) then they & the KC can take action. Without making every breeder test every puppy & have every puppy permanently identifiable there isn't a way that the system can be made 100% as far as I can see. At least we can be sure that the dogs in any KC pedigree really do exist and are the same breed- unlike the DLRC!!!!

Hi, Whilst it is certainly reprehensible to wrongly register the litter, the time span is not a problem under KC regs - unless you are a licensed breeder you can register  consecutive letters less than a year apart.  The matter of proof of identitiy of the putative parents of a litter is an ongoing debatge in the dog world - whilst DNA identification looks like it is the answer, how many are willing to pay for it?  The accredited breeders scheme is going a little way towards a positive approach, but still relys heavily on the breeders honesty.  However, the KC is the best we have, and it is, in part, up to us to police the situation ourselves.  I dont know how th eKC would react to a letter from someone with no direct link to the litter advising that a doubtful litter had been registered, I have a feeling that the complaint would have to come from and interested party, eg a puppy buyer.
bye
Gwen

Thanks, have spoken to the KC and they said that they will register a litter from a bitch every six months, which is appaling but there you go. Thought it used to be a year, obviously the rules have changed. They did say she was breaking the Breeding and Sale of Dogs Welfare act, but that the KC 'don't adhere to that'!

I am 99.9% certain that the dog named is not the father. Roll on compulsary DNA testing.

Even with compulsary DNA testing who's to say a breeder is going to test the 'real' sire or dam of a litter, it is easy to swab dogs or even if a vet is employed to take blood they don't know which dog is which when a breeder presents them for testing.  Unfortunately until we have some sort of outside body doing compulsary identification of puppies early on that accompanies the registration documents I don't see how the situation can improve.

It took my bitch longer than that to get back into shape. Having a litter really knocks it out of a dog. I waited more than 2 years between litters.

Considering that quite a high percentage of the registered fathers of human babies are NOT the natural father (either the mother doesn't know who is or isn't going to tell) - I find it quite amusing that people will want to go to the lengths of wanting compulsory DNA testing before registration of litters by the KC :D :D

Daisy

Completely off the point, but to do with the Kennel Club... We moved house and I E-mailed the Kennel Club, to change our address on the dogs' records. They wouldn't accept this and I had to send them a letter by snail mail - I eventually got round to doing this yesterday. Yesterday I also received some mail  from the Nursing and Midwifery council re-directed from our old address- so I rang them up and they accepted my change of address over the phone with no questions asked! It just seemed bizarre to me that they were so casual, while the Kennel Club was so fussy!

Carene,

The point here is the there is "ownership" of dogs that could be played around with.  That is why it must be done in writing.  

The college don't hold records of anything you actually own.

BFn Pam

whats this dog lovers register i keep hearing about?

If you do a search here on the site for DLR you should get a *few* hits ;) :D

OK, but why not accept an E-mail?

Emails don't have legal signatures. Would you want just anyone to be able to alter your (or your dog's) details over the phone or by email?

The problem is that even when you can provide irrefutable evidence to the kc that your signature has been forged they will not revoke the decision - especially if the dog has been transferred and puppies bred.

They agreed to place the bitch in question back in my name acknowledging that my signature was forged (sadly the bitch had passed away by now) but the puppies which were regisered without my agreedment kept their registrations with the owners.

I wonder why i bother co owning dogs when this happens??  I even had the original reg cert for this dog thinking this meant that it could not be altered, but you only need to phone the kc and say you have lost the original to get another to change...

You need a signature.

Of course the ultimate aim of DNA testing/ID is to have the pups tested soon after birth too (like racehorses)  However, they whole idea of this big change has to be well thought out, and it certianly is not receiving whole hearted support from all breeders.  I cant understadn the purpose of having an outside agency involved, the KC has the registry in place, why would we want to be answerable to yet another body, and who would control that?
bye
Gwen

If I were to breed a litter, I would look into the lines I wanted to use to see if there were any health problems I needed to be aware of. If the pedigrees are false, then whats the point? It makes all the health testing we do futile and could have repercussions for generations.

Hi, um not completley on the same idea as the last mesage, but in the earlyer ones i noticed people metnioning the DLRC, i don't want to sound stupid but what is it? i thought you could only register with the KC?
regards betty

Hi Betty, you can only register with the KC if you want any sort of value to your registration, to be able to show or compete with your dog, to breed KC reg. pups yourself.  There are many benefits ot KC reg, and it is a basic requirement for the afore mentioned activities.  However, some less reputable or knowledgable breeders use a firm called DLRC, who will print out a nice bit of paper with all the detalis on you give them, for a fee less than official KC reg.  Of course, you can do this yourself with a PC for considerably less yourself.  Buts thats all DLRC is, a bit of paper, it has not value or standing.  And, to anyone "in the dog world" it is a red flag of warning!
bye
Gwen