Did anyone else see the horryfying picture of a cocker spaniel kept in appalling conditions by a breeder/judge with 30 years experience ? it was in the dog papers this week ( 'Our Dogs I think). Both Mother and Son lived in the house with 7 Cockers/American Cockers - not a huge number for two people to look after ! It was unrecognisable as a Spaniel and had obviously been suffering for a long time . The RSPCA took 4 dogs away due to ill treament/neglect and the other 3 were rehomed by the owners ( presumably to their friends so that they could continue showiing them !). These poor dogs were kept crated all day lying in their own faeces, starved and their illnesses /injuries left untreated - did no-one in their breed know what was going on ! There can be NO excuse for this, the courts have banned them from owning dogs for only 2 years but I do think that the Kennel Club should impose a lifelong ban on both of them - after all they are quick to impose bans on people who infringe some of their petty rules !!!.

Heavens, I haven't seen my Our Dogs yet this week, I usually pick it up on a Saturday morning but I was at a show yesterday. American Cockers are my breed, so I'm intruigued. I'm off to the Newsagent now.

Dawn R.

i saw that too! :(
its very sad that somebody with that much experince can let things get to that state,it appears that the show dogs were ok,but the oldies werent bothered with,so sad

I read it in 'Dog World'. There seems to be such a lot of this 'behind closed doors' allousness/cruelty coming out into the open more and more, regarding these so called 'dog lovers' that have years of 'experience' behind them. Shouldn't they know better than this and if their in difficulties and having problems sort them out before things get to the state of making the poor animals suffer.
Talk about ordinary pet owners been cruel. Haaa!!! This sort of thing beggers belief and just makes me sick

I would just like to say that I used to go to a training club run by Roy and Brenda Parmenter and in the time fo going to the club I found them both to be very nice people. His mother was not in the best of health last year (which is no excuse I know) and I think he probably took more time looking after her than he did his dogs which is only human nature. I agree that in times of hardship they should have asked for help or tried to re-home the dogs but I don't think the cruelty his dogs suffered was intentional in any way or planned out with any malice. I think the judge was right to ban them from looking after dogs for the two years he did in which time they can possibly address any health issues that his mother may have and get them dealt with.

Whilst I certianly dont condone animal cruelty or neglect in  anyway, I think it should also be borne in mind that the twist RSPCA evidence can put on things can make them look a whol lot worse than they are.  Remember the Gatherall case?  This made national news, on TV as well.  My ex partner lived just down the lane from them, and said that he agreed whilst the house was incredibly bad, not one of the dogs looked the worse for wear - some of the oldies did have a rotten tooth or two, but every dog he saw was fit and happy - and he saw them on an almost daly basis!
However, the press repo9rts and the RSPCA evidence in court made it sound like they were all in an awful state and in iminent danger.  YEs, there was a problem, but I think the people were suffering, not the dogs!
bye
Gwen

The Gatherals were set up they waited until they were away then went in & took all the dogs except one terrier who belonged to someone else which got away from them & was never seen again. They also took a Rough Collie that wasn't theirs & the owner had to get a court order to get it back

the RSPCA  lodged some of the dogs near me & when Miss gatheral went to visit them she found they had been not giving the Ch Dog(a genetically CEA clear) his eye drops for an infection in one eye & that the infection had spread to both eyes & her lawyer who was with them heard the manager say-just tell them we've been using the drops & have run out"The dogs were kept in a separate kennels from the other dogs & never saw natural light.

They signed over all the dogs & the best ones went to the RSPCA top people & the rest sold at full market value, They had some lovely Cavalier puppies & all the dogs were clean & well fed, it was just the property that was filthy. I wept when I saw them "noose"a young sheltie & lift it used the noose up in the air(over 6 feet off the ground)& stuff it into a cage that was for a chihuahua.

If I had been a supporter of the RSPCA I would have stopped supporting them from then onwards

I remember that case well, and as you say, the 'facts' as reported in the papers did not tally with the TV evidence of the dogs' condition. (Even the vets at the RSPCA centres where the dogs were taken - shown on Pet Rescue - were heard to remark favourably on their condition. No matted coats, for a start.)

Absolutely right JG

My friend regularly visited the shelties at the local RSPCA & saw haow they actually went down in condition whilst in the care of the RSPCA  :O  She asked about having one or all of them.She already has shelties & was told all 85 dogs were spoken for This was months before the dogs were signed over

In this case the photo in the paper showed a dog that was  and had been, clearly suffering for some considerable time. The four dogs taken away had been STARVED and made to sleep in their own filth for many many weeks - no matter how busy he was Roy Parmenter could surely have found the time to let those poor animals out, clean them up, and FEED them - after all he managed to do so for the three that were stilll being shown !

The dog showing world is quick to 'close ranks' and excuse animal cruelty when it is perpertrated by those they know -when they would be appalled if it was happening by 'joe public'.

It is all too easy to become over dogged when bitten by the
showing bug - but it should always be inexcusable to allow animal to suffer because we have too many to cope with - there are after all always breed rescues that can help and many others in the breed who would be ready to lend a hand.

I entirely agree that wilful neglect is cruelty and inexcusable in all cases. Having only read about this case, and not seen images of the dogs (or the dogs themselves) I can't comment on this individual case. If what you report is true, then you are completely right.
:)

The dog showing world is quick to 'close ranks' and excuse animal cruelty when it is perpertrated by those they know -when they would be appalled if it was happening by 'joe public'.

That is a completely unjustified remark.

I know nothing about this case so am not going to speculate but the KC has realised that some people, particularly older owners who find it difficut to accept that they are not coping which is why they have set up support measures. Without involving the KC, many breed people also rally round to sort out situations when they become aware of them.
In many cases the people themselves are as much in need of help as the dogs.
In this case, the KC may well take action, but they have to wait until any court action has been completed first.

I agree with you 100% Trevor, I have seen the pictures what they did was inexcusable :(

I was always taught as a child "It's the way you tell it!", and so I don't always believe what I read in newspapers.
And, with my advancing years :rolleyes: I've also learned that the camera can lie!

surely not to that extent, those dogs were emaciated and their coats thick with knots and filth :(

Not having seen them I can't comment, but I have seen coated dogs in an incredible state after a long, muddy walk - I imagine I could get quite shocking photos of them!

Absolutely JG.  If I was to "hack" some of my dogs' coat off, (which is what the photos that I've seen looked like!) stand them in unfamiliar surroundings so that they hunched themselves up, I could make my 'beautiful' dogs look like an RSPCA case!
To be honest I did it myself when I started grooming.  I was sooo proud of my work, I tried to take before and after photos of the dogs that I'd trimmed.  Although the dogs were perfectly happy and relaxed for me to trim them as I was standing with them and talking to them, when I secured them and stood back to take a photo, they all looked like pathetic growbags, and I didn't get a photo to brag about of any of them! :D

I am a little sceptical of any photo issued by the RSPCA, remembering the "Mountain of dogs" photo which they had to admit was done by mirrors and the "Horse on a hook" photo which they had to admit THEY put on the hook. A photo of my Anna arriving home on a Saturday evening covered in dirt and looking bedraggled could easily be made out as if I was terribly neglecting my dogs whereas a photo taken the same morning of her walking out to my car would tell a totally different story.

If they are guilty they deserve all they get but remember, a person is innocent, however bad it looks, until proven. Remember Colin Stagg!

Regards, John

As I said, I havent seen the photos ( or even read the article yet, as i have not got my dog papers)  but as I am closely involved in one of the breeds here, and actually run the breed rescue, I take any suggestion of neglect and cruelty very seriously.  However, I tend to look on RSPCA evidence as being suspicious until proved not to be (cynical, I know)  I mentioned a sheltie case as an illustration of the way a problem can be used by the RSPCA to drum up a big publicity storm, it should be borne in mind that a lot of RSPCA personnel are very anti pedigree dog, and they look on a case involving show people as  a god given opportunity to fling muck at the dog show world.  I dont know  anything at all about the rights and wrongs of this particular case, I do know that I tried to get the RSPCA involved in a very easy to see cruelty case involving an old, matted neglected dog, allowed to roam, often cold and wet, unable to see as he had lost the sight in one eye due to untreated infection and had hair matted over the other.  He was filthy and had sores, his coat was digusting, his breath foul from rotten teeth, his ears discharging and agonisingly painful.  After numerous calls from self and a friend (who groomed other dogs belonging to memebers of the family of this dogs owner) we managed to get a visit to the owners - they were not in, and no further visits were made!  Perhaps they would have jumped at the opportunity of rescuing and photographing this dog if he had belonged to show peolple?
bye
Gwen

I don't know whether some people are unaware of this but the Parmenters have in fact pleaded guilty to the charges bought by the RSPCA so it's not a case of innocent until proven guilty - they are appealing against the sentence (a 2 year ban on dog ownership) but have admitted the 4 charges of causing unnecessary suffering.

I gather if you plead guilty (whether or not you are) the dogs are released from kennels sooner, so it's easier on them.

This was the same with the Gatheralls, they ended up pleading guilty to cut the whole process short.  One of the interesting things about that case was the evidence given by their Vets, who said words to the effect thatthey knew no-one who lavished more care on thier dogs, However, this is a general observation, I dont know at all about the rights and wrongs of this case.
bye
Gwen

The RSPCA went in in April.
It has taken a long time to come to court.
Chow

Please just LOOK at that photograph - no way is that a dog that is simply "bedraggled after muddy walk" as some of you seem to be saying - this poor animal was obviously suffering for a LONG TIME ! - it's eye infection had been left for so long that it had gone blind in that eye and it had open weeping sores. This was a dog that plainly  had no value in the eyes of it's owner as it was old and past it's showing career - their treatment of it and the other 'non-show' dogs was inexcusable.