Does anyone else find this really annoying?  When you meet a dog out on a walk and you ask "is it a boy or a girl" and they reply "he used to be a boy but now he's had his bits off".

I really hate that!  I only want to know say I can say "he's lovely" or "she's lovely", I don't actually want to know its medical history or what parts of the dogs body is still in tact, its a grammatical reference question is all!!

Owners of spayed bitches don't say "she used to be a girl".  And what are they claiming they're dog is now, androgynous?  Of course its still a boy, he's just had his bits off!  Its not a girl, is it! Poor little dogs, with no sense of identity.  Its just a he/she thing question.  ARRRRRRRGHHHHH!!!!

Or is it just me... :rolleyes:

Double post deleted!!!!!!!

I have three neutered boys and I wouldn't dream of saying 'He used to be'.
For a start if he 'used to be' he damn well still is. If their husband had had a vasectomy does this mean he is no longer a man?
Or in deed if the owner is a man having had a vasectomy is he no longer a man?
Neither would I say my speyed girl was no longer a bitch. ( I've been 'speyed').
Doh!!! Does this make me a bitch? Or simply still female?

lol I feel this post will go down the same road as the 'he's only a pet' thread lol remember that?

A vasectomy's different to castration though! I don't know of any castrated men, though I know plenty who've had (or say they've had! ;) ) vasectomies! Literally speaking, a castrated dog or spayed bitch is now a 'neuter' - neither boy nor girl.
:)

Genetically they are still males & females even if the have been neutered

LOL - I know that's right, but its still annoying!  I only want to know whether to call it 'he' or 'she' and when they reply with that I'm left speechless as I don't know what to say!  Just about every male dog I've ever met and chatted with the owner to, I've asked and had that reply.  Even my next door neighbour with his cat.  I think I shall just stop asking, and talk to the dog instead, saying "you're lovely!" :-D

After my dog was castrated he use to wee like a bitch and so if anyone caught him in the act.....they thought that he was a bitch!!    Mind he was a Dachshund so perhaps he found in easier to wee that way!!  

Oh Dear! 

From Jacky (who used to be a woman)!!

Can't imagine what you do then!!!!

LOL@jacky :-D

Not quite true Jeangenie, a castrated male still produces some level of male hormones which are not typical for females.   If a male dog is castrated before they are sexually mature they will still grow up to lift their legs, rather than squat like bitches.  

Stacey

So that must make my poor little Faygy Woo only half a boy because he only has one ball

Stacey, the guide dogs are all castrated very young i believe, and ive yet to see one cock its leg  :)     although ive not seen them all  :D

Dizzy,

That's strange, because in the U.S. most dogs are castrated before they are six months old and every one I've seen has grown up and cock their legs.  Never heard of one that did not do so.

Stacey

I never knew that male hormones could still be produced after castration ...I always thought that the testes produced them. (not that that has anything to do with the original question tho)

Hi Pinklilies,

I was just reading about hormone production and sexual characteristics a few days ago, and of course cannot recall where .. at the time it did not seem important.  Always the way.

The differences between males and females are not limited to hormone production (or lack thereof) is the best way to understand it.   There are several genetic differences passed along with the difference in chromosone makeup between males and females that also account for distinctions between the sexes. 

Stacey

I think you are right Stacey.

All animals have genes with chromosomes in (homologous) pairs (except in the male/female sex gene where the female has 2 'x' chromosomes and the male one 'x' and one 'y').  On fertilisation if 2 'x' genes meet up you get female if 1 'y' and 1 'x' you get male.  These denote the sex (gender) of the offspring, includes the growth of the male and female reproductive organs and a lot of hormones and other 'invisible' characteristics which go hand in hand with the gender of the animal.  If castrated or speyed you will have either a male or female 'neutered' animal ie. an animal no longer able to reproduce as it no longer has some of its reproductive organs. I don't think that is quite the same as saying they are now no longer male or female because the gender is denoted by far more than just one reproductive element in its make-up.

Hi Stacey

Well I don't know what research if any has been done into that but my dog was castrated at 12 months and had not 'cocked' his leg to piddle before that.  He is now  3 years old which is past the age of maturation and still does NOT cock his leg - he squats just like a bitch.  I understood at the time of castration that as it was done before he matured he may never 'cock' his leg and that has proven to be so.

Hi Suzieque,

I've only owned one male dog, he was castrated at almost 14 months, and he does cock his leg.   I do not know when male dogs start to cock their legs, but 12 months sounds late to me.  

All I can tell you is that every neutered dog I've known cocks their legs, even those that were done right before sexual maturity. 

Stacey

JG

A castrated dog or bitch is not 'neutral'  - neither male or female  - it is simply an animal that no longer has the option of producing eggs or fertilising eggs.  It still maintains all the other physical parts of the reproductive systems which denote gender.  Surely vets only remove the ovaries in females and do not remove the mammary glands, womb, uterus, vuvla etc (unless medical problems dictate).  Likewise in males they remove the testes but leave everything else in place.  It is not just the egg/sperm containers which denote gender (sex) of animals.  Some humans are born without ovaries but have everything else which denote gender so aren't they still female even though sterile?

Surely the reason why a male either cocks his leg or not has more to do with status than anything else? The more dominant he is, the more he needs to advertise his postion in the pack/society, so the higher up to nose level he wees. My youngster is 2 and will lift his leg in the garden, but will not scent mark against anything, and on walks or in the company of other dogs, he squats. The ten year old, on the other hand, is pack leader, and will mark his territory in the garden and mark over others wee out on walks. He didn't do this as a young dog. This has happened as he has got older. Both boys were castrated at around a year old. I maybe wrong, but that's just how I thought it worked. If you ever watch nature programmes on wolves, you never see anyone other than the alpha male (and in her own way, often the female!) cocking his leg.

Suzieque, when a vet spays a bitch the ovaries and uterus (womb) are all completely removed.

Maybe its  because guide dogs will be  more subservient,    therefore not into the need to be macho,    :) 

But not all the bits that make a dog either male or female.  All castration/speying does it make the dog sterile - unable to reproduce its own kind.

The dictionary definition of 'neuter' is "neither masculine nor feminine".

Jeangenie,

"Neuter" is only the term used for the general public so the dictionary definition is not really relevant.

The proper term for neutering is actually orchidectomy.  Castration would be a better term than neutering, but it's too emotive I suppose.

Stacey

It's interesting the way people won't use ordinary words, isn't it? And I'm often surprised at how many people think the term 'neutering' only applies to males, whereas we know that both males and females are neutered.
:)

The dictionary terminology may well define 'neuter' as 'neither masculine or feminine but an animal that has had part of its reproductive system removed is still its original gender.  Maybe historically this term has been incorrectly applied and it stuck.  I'm sure there are millions of females out there who have had the obligatory 'hysterectomy' but I think they would be most offended if they were subsequently described as being sex or genderless!!  Just think of all those bureaucratic forms that would have to be changed - the tick boxes only give 2 options to denoate gender  - M or F.  Woe betide if they offered an N for neutral!

I can no longer reproduce, does that stop me being called a woman, do I have to be an it from now on?????? :-D

I think she's right, Jeangenie, :)

Personally, I felt like an 'it' as soon as I stopped being able to reproduce, but I can understand others may feel differently!
:)