Around where?

minehead,west somerset

there is one lady who seems to have two elderly mals that she lets off on the beach,but seemed to go really out of her way to avoid everyone else,also havent seen her for some time

Best thing to do is to get yourself to either a rally or a show where there are lots of Sibes and Mallies :) You will find most owners are more than happy to talk to you about their breed. There are lots of informative websites out there on the net as well :)

i did do a bit of research a few years ago! when i saw my first Mal.(long ago now!)
nothing is like actually "knowing" one though i suppose!
at the moment id think having a dog that couldnt be free on walks would seem like a problem,but if i knew a few...then maybe not?
knowing my collies so well its sort of hard to get my head around something with such opposite behaviour!
i find it hard enough when i meet people walking alone on the beach for the entire walk & then at the car park theyve suddenly got a setter or english pointer!!!
sometimes i think i lose nellie,& i turn around & around looking for her & shes behind my back turning with me!!!!

My Belgians are like that - they constantly circle round me as I walk them and no way would they let me out of sight - our land has no fences just ditches which they could easily jump but they never have - staying with me the whole time. Don't think I could cope with a breed that could never be let off and whose instinct is to pull :-o

what about the lady who does agility with her sibes(can't remember the name of the lady but one of the dogs is called riva)are her two dogs exception to the norm or just good training.

there is also a lady that has a sib in obedience,he works C only now, to do that he has to do Hw off the lead including positions on the move, (no speaking to the dog,muliplal turns changes of pace) distance control,(dog left in position,handler walks at least 10 paces away & dog does 6 positions without moving off the spot)
sendaway & pick up,retrieve, scent & stays (3min sit out of sight & 10 minute down)

i have never seen her dog off the lead in the exercise area though!

from what weve been saying when i think about what shes taught that dog to do! amazing!

This lady has two sibes i who do agility and fly ball so her dogs are either really amazing for huskies or really well trained,which is it i wonder.She also says on her website not to let huskies off lead though

We do obedience with our bitch and know of several other Mal owners that also do. We do a lot of OTL work with her at classes - which is fine as it is in an enclosed space. However I wouldn't let her off the lead in an exercise area or somewhere that wasn't fully secure.

I'm thinking of taking her to agility, but again I would only let her off in a fully enclosed area (and with a pocket full of treats :rolleyes: )

with irene who does the competitve obedience,its not enclosed at all just rings with a single rope in the middle of a show ground/field

Oh Michelle, little do you realise that Minehead (well Dunster) is where a very large group of us train each weekend with our sibes. We`re right under your nose...however you are forgiven for not spotting us (all thirty/forty dogs) as we sneak up really early each sunday morning to train. We train down at the Great Wood during the week too.

Please email me for more information as it would be an ideal opportunity to get to know the husky breed....oh and I believe we have a Mal among us too!

What better opportunity could you ask for.

Drop me an email

Kind regards

liz

I agree with everyone on here. Huskies, yes I owned them for 13 years, shouldn't generally be let off lead.
On the other hand I have a friend, I've posted this before, she has eight huskies who she can reliably let off lead together.
They recall perfectly 'everytime'. They are all from the same line and all her breeding for the last 7-8years or so.
They take no, or very little notice, of other dogs or wildlife and have brought to her attention a number of injured animals that she has had to rescue.
This, I know, is not normal for the breed but it does go to show with persistance and perseverance even a Husky can be trained to recall.
These Huskies all return to their owner and sit in a row to have their leads attached. When I walk my dog with them it is me that has a problem getting my dog back. My dog comes back because the Huskies do.
I do reiterate I that this is not the 'norm' for Huskies and my friend is the only one I know who can let so many off together.
I only ever had one I could let off after about 18 months and that was because she was 'stunted'.

No one has bred the eye out of Border Collies but they don't all want to work & most show dogs are from dogs that don't have as much work drive as otheres. Raymond McPherson once told me if a dog won't work sheep it won't do any good in obedience as the dog must have the drive to work & it's up to the handler to channel that drive into whatever work they want it for.

I know of a 100 % show BC that from an early age wanted to work & was useless in the show ring because of his work drive he found shows boring, he went as a pet eventually & ended up working sheep belonging to the owners uncle & finally had found his place His brothers & sisters showed no such drive & were very successful in the breed ring

Why would anyone want to breed just for the looks of Mals & Sibes ? That has happened to so many breeds it would be tragic for it to happen to these as well.

I have friends with Mals & they road walk & race train to a rig & free run on the owners well Mal proofed land. They are bred to run & long may it remain so. They only have one problem they are besotted with Cavaliers much to the embarassment of the owners when they go all soppy at the sight of cavaliers in another ring & they are trying to show them ;)

yes i know they are both unreliable and i am not condoning either breed to be let off their leads but i have always been told by mally people that mals are more likely to come back than sibes and that they wont run off immediately like sibes do??  also i have found the off lead issue does not appear to be as big a no-no in mals as in sibes??

What Mally people have told you that Scatchy? I would be interested to know :D The issue is as strong with Mals as it is with Sibes and always has been as far as I know.

couldn;t give you names if i tried!  i had always thought that mals were as bad as sibes as was shocked to see them off lead trotting about and when questioned i was told the above.  will keep your reply in mind next time i see some off lead!
kelly

:D I guess the story that someone told me about a chap, who boasted about how well trained his dog was, always recalled perfectly etc, who let his Mal off lead and it ran onto a road and was killed will always stick with me. Whenever I hear of people who let their Mals offlead in open areas it bothers me. Mine *are* walked offlead ...but we can ALWAYS see for miles plus the area is fenced off

Like Mel, I do walk mine off the lead but only in secure fenced off areas - my bitches recall is fairly reliable (for a mal) but I know that if she saw a squirrel/rabbit/pheasant etc then she would be off and would not return until she wanted too.

That's the same story I mentioned earlier.

It really sticks in your mind and after hearing that, I only let my mals off when I know FOR SURE that there is no chance of them going anywhere else :)

i suppose part of the problem may be this

New owner,breeder tells them never to let them off lead,
new owner takes advice then trots off to training class run by someone with no sib/mal experince,tells them its rubbish ,that any dog can be trained & dog starts to do rea\lly well in club,so new owner starts to take notice of trainer & forgets what breeder has said,
dog is doing good stays & recalls in club so new owner thinks it will be ok outside,then diaster

that can be true as if you read my earlier post, way up at the top of this thread, i was told the same by an obedience trainer.  he too was doing really well inside the large hall with sits, downs, recalls etc etc however kavik's little demonstration around the areana proved otherwise and i think she was a little bit shocked!  and went from telling me of course he could be trained to come back to telling me i would never be able to do a thing with him!  good job i knew about the breed and knew she was talking rot!!
kelly

they do seem to be very specialised!

I have no experience of mals and sibes, but i suppose that story could have been any breed really. My goldie has a really good recall usually, but the other day we were surprised by a pheasant and she was off, miles away from me (We were in a large field thank goodness) but she would easily have run into the road, completely ignoring me. I am not disputing what you say though, as i say i've no experience of spitz breeds.

Is it recommended that you don't walk Golden Retrievers offlead then?

Wow That would make using them on a shoot difficult keeping them on lead ;)all the time

lucyandmeg

all breeds have "default" behaviours which they were a) bred for and b) are self rewarding.  For sheepdogs it is to herd, for hunting dogs it is to hunt and for huskies etc it is to run.

There will always be "atypical" examples of breeds, the retriever that does not, the sheepdogs that do not herd and presumably the husky that has no interest in running however that should not mean that we can assume ALL examples of a purpose built breed will behave so.

A good recall means that your dog will come back whatever the distraction................  gundogs can and do and should stop on  a whistle to fur and feather, if they have had sufficient training.

There is a difference between "undertraining" and an inbuilt genetic drive to do something to the exclusion of anything and anybody else..........

My sibe managed to escape twice first time was while penned up outside. Went to check them before bed shed gone. It was thinck with snow that night. Straight in car drove for miles. Next day phoned all the obvious places nobody had seen her. Carried on our search got a call from RSPCA she was in Abbey National in town. Shed wonderd in when it opend and had been sprawled out across the isle.
It was a Saturday morning the bank was busy and we had to go get her. Everyone there was making such a fuss over her. Id love to know what she got upto that night.
The second time we chased her and she was like a bolt over busy roads nothing scared her. She caught eye of my husband and stopped.
We were very lucky both times. The thing with huskies they do tend to be escape artists and even though you think they may be secure dont under estimate them.
I have found them very very clever dogs. Also I think as dogs they can be too confident. 

Actually melodysk i have a book about GR's that says they shouldn't be let off before 3 years of age because they aren't mature enough! But my point was that all dogs have the ability to run and ignore their owners, but obviously that instinct must be stronger in spitz breeds, if they can never be let off.

Exactly right ;)

This is for Michelle

Minehead (well Dunster) is where a very large group of us train each weekend with our sibes. We`re right under your nose...however you are forgiven for not spotting us (all thirty/forty dogs) as we sneak up really early each sunday morning to train. We train down at the Great Wood during the week too.

Please email me for more information as it would be an ideal opportunity to get to know the husky breed....oh and I believe we have a Mal among us too!

What better opportunity could you ask for.

Drop me an email

Kind regards

liz

replyed privatley!!!

(if i get interested in this YOUlot are going to be in ALOT of trouble & i will be homeless!)

All dogs do suffer from SDS (sudden deafness syndrome).  In large part I think that whether or not you let a dog off lead depends on the owner's tolerance for ignoring a recall.  I know in my breed, Cairns, the advice is never to let them off lead because they cannot be trained out of their natural hunting instinct.  And they are not a breed that were bred  to work on  command, so there is nothing instinctual to them about being responsivene to training.  Apart from a desire to please their owners, which is common to all dogs. 

I have two Cairns.  One I could tell from an early age could be trusted off lead.  She's the type of dog that will only go so far ahead of me without stopping to look back to see where I am.  She goes as beserk as any terrier when she spots a squirrel, but she will never stray too far.  My second Cairn, who I have only had for a little over two months, I am quietly confident I can never let off lead.  He is so quick and fast that the sound of my voice would be a distant memory when I tried to recall him.   Yes, I will still teach him the recall, but trust him to be reliable - never.

At my local common area the recall I see used most often is the "scream the dog's name loud enough and often enough and eventually they will come back."   I see people who let their dogs dash under fencing onto private land, the dog goes completly out of sight, they call it and wait until it decides to return when it's ready.  Shameful really. 

Whatever the breed, if recall is not reliable do not let them off lead.  I do agree that some breeds will never be fully reliable.

Stacey

as a fairly new owner to 2 sibies a 7 month old pup and a  3 year old, i would never dream of letting them off lead, i did a lot of research into this amazing breed before hand and knew all the pros and cons etc and i would never for 1 min think oh lets just try it and see,

1 day my 2 kids left both our hallway door open and the front door, both sibies without a moments hesitation bolted out the door along the street, thankfully they ran into a garden at the corner house which was enclosed and hubby caught them, kids  are more aware of the dangers now that they have seen 1st hand how fast they can run off,

i have lost count the number of times a woman at out local park asks me or hubby are you still not letting them off lead??!! :-o  she has a friend who has 2 males 1 2 yr old and a 4month old and both are let off all the time, there is a big main road only a few yards away from the park and it would only take seconds for an accident to happen, also the 2 yr old has so far to my knowledge killed a squirrel and a duck from the park, a few other dog owners we speak to are not happy about this, the 2 yr old dissapeears in the woods and eventually comes back(how long before he doesnt?) but there are deer in the woods along with other wildlife so its like a big sweety shop to them!,

as for the awe is it not a shame not letting them free run when out,although i love to see them running around in the back garden all fully enclosed its just not worth what could happen to my beloved dogs just so i could try it and see,i have 2 other dogs who do get offlead excercise but as i saw 1st hand for myself how fast it can all happen and i want to be able to enjoy many many more years of life with my sibies i will not take that risk,my 2 can still run when we are out we make a game of it and they love it, they jump about in the long grass and love to pounce to see if there are any mice hiding, come back from their walks with that famous sibie smile on their faces :-D ,i intend to get a scooter or a rig soon to start running them for fun and im sure they will love that even more  :-D

this breed (and im sure each persons individual choice of breed also) captures you yes there are many pros and cons but the pros far out weigh cons and im told once i get them hooked up to a scooter or rig then it will get even better being owned by this wonderful breed

Michelle