good idea

now im confused aimie! does she break her "stays"
(when you go back)
or her  anticipating her recalls?

Sorry, she is anticipating her recalls but only as I turn round about to call her.

ok, ignore everything i said about the stays then!
ok do this,command,leave,stop,turn,go back,"present youself " in front of her,take a step back so she comes in,titbit, command again leave again,stop turn recall.
go back a few steps,do some closer ones & build up the distance slowley,chop & change sometimes recall her,sometimes go back to her & take one step back.
this should get her thinking abit & not anticipating

you could even do the titbit on the bucket thing here,if you dont want to hold the food

if she does anticipate just go & put her back,no food, just a "no,thats not what i want"

also do you reinforce the wait as you turn around? ie say it again,also keep your hands still untill you call her

Thanks for that - will try to see if we can crack it.

you will! ;)

This is what we teach our dogs - however wait for us generally means 'keep still until I give you another command' not necessarily just to call them to me. A stay means they have to stay in their position until I return to them and release them :)

yes so then you can use it in dc assd etc

in a stay the dogs knows it must not move until i come back & release it, in a recall it knows on command it will move,
i think by using the same command the dog never knows what is coming next & therefore could become confused

for example the down at the start of a Arecall,SA,or ASSD would all be the" lion down" to ensure a smooth easy pick up, a stay would be with the bottom rolled over or a flat

Hi Michelled,

Havent got that far yet - or maybe my trainer doesnt distinguish between them as from the begining she asked us to pick a word that our dogs knew - that was wait for us.

If a dog is to not move from the spot when asked until it is given the next instruction how is wait and stay different. Would it not confuse them to have 2 different words. If using 2 different words would they not then anticipate their next move (I suppose this could be a good or bad thing).

I will ask my trainer what her veiw is tonight and why we do it that way.

I have never found it to be a problem myself, maybe I am just lucky :D  I prefer to keep things easy for my dogs, as far as they are concerned they must "stand" etc until I recall them, join them and/or release them.

if that works for you tohme! stick with it! id never suggest anybody change anything that a dog understands!
when looking at problems with any exercise though you can never rule out anything!!!
with the collies they are always thinking two steps ahead & are more settled if they know what they are doing or theyd be up to allsorts, & if they make a mistake its highly likely that ive made a mistake!!! (bless um!)

hi aimi,imagine this from your dogs piont of view,you do a recall,you are told to wait,then you come,there may be a verbal & a body command,you get a titbit good dog,then the dog is doing a stay with the wait command,so the dog is thinking in a minute im going to be called & im going to get a nice sweetie,then you move your arm,the poor dog mistakes it for a body signal & thinks youve called her! bless, not really breaking just not sure what you want! :)
i think by using different commands the dog is more sure & also you are sure if they really understand what they are being told to do.
BUT saying that if you are having lessons talk it over with your trainer first! ;)

I can see it must be difficult if you have not taught the dog correctly .................

I dont want to confuse Noe whether it is sticking with "wait" or using "stay" and "wait" - I'm confused now !!

I really appreciate your coments, I suppose all methods suggested have worked or you wouldnt have mentioned them so now I have to decide where to go from here and also see what out trainer thinks. I will let you know what she says tomorrow.

"for example the down at the start of a Arecall,SA,or ASSD would all be the" lion down" to ensure a smooth easy pick up, a stay would be with the bottom rolled over or a flat"

Think I am out of my league here !! Sorry, need it in layman terms :)

hi aimi,(sorry)think about how many downs there are, the flat down, so dog is completley rolled over & flat to the floor,the rolled bum,where the dog is looking up but its bottom is rolled over so his back legs are on one side, & the lion down /counterlever down, where the dog is down but up on his haunches. the first too are good for a stay but the last one not good,but if you leave the dog in a down for a recall then the lion down would be better as he can get up smater from it

Just a thought, but are you training for pet obedience or for competition?

Lindsay
X

I train Boxers for competition. I have found it very useful to distinguish between the 'wait' and 'stay' commands.

On recalls in ob. trials here we have the option of calling the dog's name prior to the 'come' signal/command (must have a 3 second delay between name & command). To proof for anticipation I frequently give the 'wait' command, walk forward, turn, call the name, pause, and then return & reward the dog for waiting. If you are not allowed to attract attention by calling the name the same return after a pause at the end of the walkout can be done to reward the dog for not anticipating the recall.

As food rewards are more easily carried than toys I stick with them as rewards in training, plus lots of praise and allow a bit of jumping around at the end of exercises.

how did you get on last night aimi?

Hi helpers,

Michelled, did the training you recomended as soon as I got home last night:

(" ok do this,command,leave,stop,turn,go back,"present youself " in front of her,take a step back so she comes in,titbit, command again leave again,stop turn recall.
go back a few steps,do some closer ones & build up the distance slowley,chop & change sometimes recall her,sometimes go back to her & take one step back.
this should get her thinking abit & not anticipating")

Worked a treat, and when we got to the class (is a pet obedience class Lindsey) she was an absolute star. I used food treats more selectively and lots of praise and she was really listening. In fact we did half the lesson off the lead. I am finding if I say her name alot and if she gets distracted I say "Noe, watch me" and just show her some food I get loads of attention !!

She anticipated her recall once and I just said no thats wrong and quitetly did it again - she was perfect from then on.

We even did a sit stay and I went out of the room for a whole 30 seconds wooohhoo !! Usually she doent like it when I get out of sight so last night I went out or the room and then staight back in again and varied the distance ans out-of-sight time and it really worked.

Next thing we need to work on is our "emergency stop" when recalling. She doesnt do that yet - I am still finding the right command to use and I have to step forward to try and stop her mid 100 mile an our sprint to me !!

Its addictive this obedience lark isnt it?

hiya!
im glad it went well :) with all our slightly confusing help!!!!! ;)

going back to the stays/wait thing,do you think she may not like you going out of sight becuse shes confused about the stays/recall,ie how she can recall to you if she cant see you? & therefore using a "stay" command on the stays she will know that she just has to stay there till you get back?

to stop them, i just shout down,then they drop & stop!!!! dont use her name ie "noe down",as this may confuse her,thinking that you are calling her! practise your instant down close to her first,walk around not HW but just talking to her twisting & turning, then say down,maybe point to the floor,once she gets the idea only reward the best efforts, then move on to "downing" walking a step or to away,then back & treat, then just walk around throw a titbit away from you (not too far at first) as soon as shes eaten it say down,then wait a sec then go and treat& release, get the idea? good luck!! its really important exercise & could save her life

Before yesterday I never thought of the importance of the difference between the wait and stay commands. Our trainer last night said again it was up to us what command we should use and because the class is only pet obedience and not competition it was basic training. I think I will teach Noe both words and use them both in trainig class to whatever execise it is appropriate to. Then if we want to enroll in a propper competion training class we will be part way there.
Thanks for your help.

:)  :)  :)
when you teach her the new "stay" command, do it as if you were teaching it from scratch,a step further at a time,
use the word "stay" frequently so it sinks in, also "good stay" when she does it