Hello there,
I know that this is a subject that has been discussed time and time again, and perhaps it is just that I need some reassurance.  I have a GSD who is coming up for 6 months of age, he is a wonderful dog and means everything to my husband and I.  However, his constant mouthing everytime he is handled is driving us nuts!  We followed the advice the breeder gave us about saying "Ouch" each time he did so, but this seemed to only aggravate the problem and made hi9m want to do so more.  We attended clicker training classes with him from 12 weeks of age (once all vaccinations were complete) for 2 courses of 5 weeks each where he learned some basic obidience.  The trainer suggested that we use "time-outs" when he got too bitey, where a fim "No" command was given and he would be place in a "Naughty" corner away from everyone else and ignored for 2 minutes or so.  This method is one that we are still using but only seems to stop him initially and there has been little improvement over the past 10 weeks or so.  I have read many posts placed on this forum regarding this subject and younger pups.  The info I have reas relating to older pups was limited and some suggested tapping them on the nose or placing your thumb under the tongue.  I don't really feel comfortable with using force so is there anything else I can do?

I don't know if it is just that I am overeacting and should perservere with what I am currently doing or whether I need to seek a behaviourist?  He is our first dog and is definately a handful but I wouldn't change him for the world as he gives us so much joy and happiness.  He is a big boy and I am just really worried that he will not have learned to inhibit his bite which will in turn will cause huge problems in the future. Help!

PS. I should also add that we have also tried giving him a chew toy instead or our arms etc but to no avail.

Realistically bite inhibition should be well established BEFORE the adult teeth come through.  It may be that you have a particularly "bitey" dog from strong lines or that you have not upped the criteria in sufficiently manageable incremental steps.

Using "No" is contradictory to clicker training if used as an aversive rather than a no reward marker and 2 minute isolation is, IMHO, too long; 30 seconds time out should be sufficient.

Perhaps you need to think about whether you are allowing any biting at all and if you are not this might be too much for your dog; the idea is to gradually reduce the pressure and allow soft bites but react to the harder ones; gradually demanding a lowering of pressure altogether until NO biting of humans is allowed at all.  Could this be it?

Another way of training/maintaining bite inhibition is to do a lot of hand feeding of treats so that no amount of mugging will release the food; do not snatch your hand away if he mugs you (otherwise he might increase the force) but keep fingers closed until the dog actually chooses to back off and then feed from the open palm of hand; regular teeth cleaning can help too.

HTH

If he is mouthing gently I wouldn't worry too much.  GSD's can take a long while to grow up.

I would keep up with the time out lessons, they need to be consistant though.  You can also try putting a finger or thumb on the flabby bit on the side of his mouth and push the skin into his mouth when he bites, that way he bites himself before your fingers, you are not applying any pressure, if it hurts him he had done it himself.  I have usually found that method the best cure for a persistant mouther.

I assume you have tried putting bitter apple spray or similar on your hand, if not then that is the first step.

Sandra

My BSD was very "bitey" and earned the nickname of "mad bitey puppy" :D

I did use timeouts and this was very effective indeed; also praise for choosing not to bite, redirecting onto a toy and if it was convenient i left the roon after an "ouch" but you are right, the ouch can excite some pups who will see you as the new squeaky toy. Time outs work very well but IME you need to be consistent, use a short  house line to prevent chasing games, and also be very calm and basically ignore the dog as you are giving the time out and as you release from the time out.

I have recently been discussing and using the "3 strikes and your're out " method which is time outs, but the first 3 are for less than 30 seconds, and after that the pup gets put out for a longer period of approx. half an hour, i would maybe tru this as you are having such trouble and most dogs catch on quickly.

Hth a  bit, they are all different :)

Lindsay
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Thank-you all for the advice. He is not using too much pressure with the biting, but it is enough to be uncomfortable. We have always tried to break the process down into stages in hope that eventually saying "No" would mean that biting was no allowed.  It is just sooooo fustrating though because 90% of the time he is wonderful, but the biting is hard to handle, especially if he starts to do it to people who visit, eg my brother. I also have a 4 year old niece and until he has fully learned to inhibit his bite I certainly would not let her pet him unsupervised. 

I may be sounding a little thick, but when you say use a short house line do you mean something along the lines of a cord tied to his collar? At present he has a 0.5m piece of cord that we grab before he runs off if a time out is needed, is this the right thing to do?

Just to clarify the order of actions that we should be following, do I take him for a time out when he first starts to mouth, or when he starts to use too much pressure after being told "Off!" several times?

In hindsight because we wanted everything to be perfect, we both made the mistake of spoiling him and letting him get his own way too much when he was younger, therefore losing our position of authority (if I can call it that?). We have been trying to re-assert our position by only letting him have a toy/bone/etc if he works for it, but perhaps it is not enough? Sorry to be such a dope, but I really want the best for him and really want to get things right. I've had so many sleepless nights about it, but have always been hesitant about posting a question on this site.

Ok I'll quit my rambling now (need some sleep) but thank-you all for your support and advice.

People will vary a bit as to what they do and according to their personal experience :) Yes, the house line is just basically something to take hold of the dog to avoid him becoming collar shy or starting up a chase game which some love to do! It can be a short lead or similar, make sure you always supervise the youngster with it on and never leave it on when you are not there as it may cause an accident; a lead may be better than cord.

My dog is allowed to mouth me when i say so, but must stop when  i say stop; and she always does; she is 3 and a half now. However this isn't suitable for everyone, so bearing in mind his age now, i would probably go for taking him out each and every time he mouths, for 3 strikes. Ie, he may do it once, is calmly taken out and brought back in after 15 seconds or so; this may be repeated 3 times but on the 4th time, he is left for about half an hour with no contact. It gives both youngster and owner a chill out time as well :)

I suspect by now he has learnt a fair bit about inhibition (i also feel the pup needs to learn this gradually) so i feel (IMHO) now you must be very consistent and he goes out as soon as he mouths; i would not use the word Off in this instance, just calmly take out. If you use the word Off, he may then disengage and if you take him out, he will then feel he is being taken out for stopping :)

I think from your post all will be well, keep up the training and yes, give toys etc if he works for it but also ensure being with you is fun (I am sure it is) because that also builds up a good relationship.  Ensure he has things to chew and stuffed kongs etc. The above advice about hand feeding can also be very helpful as well to get the message across.

Lindsay
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