Well I felt really bad about giving the dog up, she was my first. However, my plan for years has been to own, gain experience in training and handling, and to breed Akitas. I'm only 21 and bought this dog when I was really young, she was advertised as 'Cross Akita' so I jumped at the chance being so young. As you probably know she didn't grow into an Akita look-a-like, so I went and bought myself a male Akita a few years later. Then over a year down the line when I had a bit of money in my pocket I decided it was now or never that I was to purchase my bitch Akita for my future hopes of breeding. Unfortunately the Akita's would I was told (as they already had) start to turn on my cross breed and she was injured at one point, which is when I decided that this was no longer a home she would want to live in.

The trouble with learning from our mistakes, when dogs are concerned, is that the poor dogs can be the ones that get hurt!   Your story shows how important it is to research first before going "hands-on".

Margot

Yes I suppose you're right, but I would hardly say anything's 'happened' or any dogs are 'hurt' as in my eyes I'm on top of it! Maybe me being on here may seem like a cry for help and in one sense maybe it is but at least I'm looking for the help BEFORE a 6 month old pup gets pregnant. And with only a week to go, the dogs being constantly watched and seperated when required and absolutely no so called 'facilities' I think I've done completely the right thing! Maybe I should have read into controlling situations before hand yes, I agree but nothing's gone wrong, the dogs have still been fed, walked and received all the attention they need as normal, with no problems!

And not knowing much about contolling these situations, having asked for help and advice before being deep into it, from my end it seems as if I could say to most people on here 'No, you're wrong'!!! As I was told to put my dog in kennels for three weeks because he's going to be howling, chewing through doors keeping me up all night and the neighbours.........none of that's happened!!

If you read the posts, Akita Lee, you were told of the things that were likely to happen, because people are sharing their experiences with you. This things (the howling, the breaking down of doors etc) have happened, and do happen. People aren't wrong - perhaps you have been one of the few lucky ones where it doesn't happen. Let's hope your good fortune continues.

Maybe you have learned from your mistake when your crossbreed was allowed to be mated and have a litter.

Akita Lee, Going by the PM you sent me asking about your own dogs pedigree and lines, I would say you know very little about Akita's! The lines you have told me you have that you previously said were good lines are most definately not! They are a cross between the japanese type and american type! You need to read up more, visit more kennels, see some akita's in the ring, look at your dogs down falls etc.

It annoys me so much, people with this breed that chuck out pups any old how. This is a big breed that deserves respect. I have done so much hard work to get the knowledge i have now and i still have so much to learn! I'd put the idea of breeding the two dogs you have out of your head, they're pedigree's will not compliment one another, you won't get consistency or type in those pups as they will be a mish mash of everything, including the jap type which they are trying to make a seperate breed!!!!!

Send me a copy of your girls pedigree, and i will try and help you find a stud dog (when she's 2 yrs of age) that will compliment your bitch in every way and then you will breed a litter that

a) you can be proud of
b) you know the quality you'll get
and finally that won't be classed as "pet quality" trying to be passed as "show quality"

"Unfortunately the Akita's would I was told (as they already had) start to turn on my cross breed and she was injured at one point, which is when I decided that this was no longer a home she would want to live in. "

Above you mention your cross bred being hurt, in the next post you say none of your dogs have been hurt!!!!!!!! MMMMMmmmmmmmmmm strange!

This was the reason I got rid of my 'cross breed' if YOU read, you'll see somebody asked me this question. When I say none of my dogs are hurt, I mean in my Akita's in THIS CURRENT situation, where I think the person means 'hurt' as in this pup being caught pregnant at such an early age!!

NO!!! I think ppl mean a dog getting hurt is a dog getting hurt! As in , ouch... pain!!!!!
You really have alot to learn, from the PM i have just recieved you state you don't see why they should split the breed as they are all akita's, the jap type are the origional akita, the american (which most of us have) are the Great Japanese Dog or to make it simple, the jap type is called AKITA INU and the American Akita either Great Japanese Dog or AKITA

I think you have next to NO knowledge at all, and you shouldn't be breeding or thinking of breeding until you wise up on the Akita breed.

I believe from the 'PM I just sent you' that I DID in fact tell you I knew about the seperation of Jap and American and also give you the name 'Great Japanese Dog'..? So why try an make out that I did not??

Don't get me wrong I understand the need and determination of whoever wants this, but as I said they're 'All Akita's' are they or aren't they??

Because I never see on any Kennel Club Registration Document 'BREED: AKITA INU' OR 'BREED: GREAT JAPANESE DOG'........Does anybody else??? No, all I ever see is 'BREED: AKITA' and it's as simple as that!

>with one quick nip to the throat he'd punctured every layer of skin in this dog's throat??

No, 'hurt' as in 'injured'.

OK I apologise I thought when u spoke to me JEANGENIE that you meant people should look into 'breeding' first before going in 'Hands On' as you said, and no dogs get hurt. This is why I argued the point that I thought u meant before breeding, look into and no dog will be hurt (as none of my akitas have in this current situation).

And going back to the cross breed, I did look into it at first as I knew what Akitas where like, but I was told a male would be fine with any bitch. And he was, absolutely fantastic to be honest, until later on, especially when the other Akita arrived on the scene, I'm sorry I didn't predict this!

Actually, Akita_Lee, it was Lokis Mum, not me, who posted about researching before going 'hands on' ...

I apologise, I'm being attacked from all angles I don't know where I am haha!!

So Akita_Lover are you one of these people who is so AGAINST the breeding of Japanese and American then? I have come across a lot of these, and when I say I know a lot about Akita's I mean the dog itself, not how Joe Blogg's brought it into American and John Blogg's took it to Canada, to be honest I don't really care about any of that for my future plans! I have read about it and yes, it is interesting and helpful to have a broad knowledge of the history of the breed, but that word is SO MUCH a key word in the this breed, HISTORY .....I see a lot more 'Great Japanese Dogs' (American) than 'Japanese Akita's' (Jap) these days, and as I think anyway, this is the world's future Japanese Akita.

I have read the book 'The Akita Today' and own the book 'The Akita' by Gerald and Kath Mitchell, these top of the chain breeders don't seem to own any of these 'Japanese Akita's' when I read and look in the book..?

I understand people's concerns into health problems and things for the future of the breed and yes, before breeding I do intend to read into the pedigree's of the dogs I plan to use, and I do plan to have more of them, and obviously I will not want to reproduce any of the bad health problems present in any of my dogs.

No Akita_Lee, I'm just against idiots breeding Akita's when they know absolutely didly squat about the breed, its history and its future. Oh and your PM, no it didn't mention the great japanese dog. Just re-read your PM of which you ask me to fill you in on my knowledge of the breed.....  Not bad for someone who knows alot about Akita's eh!

I'm leaving before i burst a blood vessel or something, this person is either VERY STUPID or can just see pound signs in their eyes!

No I'm on here to learn but people just jump the gun because they've came across these 'puppy farmer's' before and detest them, as do I! But people just seem to assume that they can jump in with their 50 years of knowledge and knock people down because you've read one more book or watched one more documentary! The truth is you're not going to do nothig for the breed on your own are you?? we all want to contibute into the future of the breed, what I want to do is produce a cross between the Great Japanese Dog, the American which is large, and The Akita Inu, or Japanese Akita for the looks, ie Jap eyes...... is this a crime as I've came across many people all over the place who are into this idea too???

If we have it the way you and the SMALL minority want it, seperating them, then as I said 'In my PM' most Akita's world wide would be mongrels.....Jap and American lines....

I'm only in here to receive help and if this is the way the people who are interested in 'seperating the breed' for the future try to pass on help and ideas then you my friend are going to do absolutely, as you said, DIDLY SQUAT for the breeds future!!!

MOST of the Akita breeders are trying to seperate the breed as now they are so different!!! Its like putting a jack russel to a bleeding corgi! Many many breeders will have nothing to do with you for trying to cross these two breeds. And as you mention on KC papers it just says Akita, that is because the KC haven't split the breed, if they do (of which we hope they do) it wil say akita inu or akita.

For god sake will someone give me strength with this idiot! May i have the good fortune never to come across you or your cross bred dogs!

See! haha

I understand where you come from Akita_Lover and yes, I agree they are different but as you said the KC have NOT seperated the breed so doesn't that tell you something??

Regards to my 'cross bred dogs' ....... I don't get u....yes cross bred as in jap/american lines.....but are they not Akita's??? tell me? I'm not trying to wind you up although you may see it that way I'm simply on here arguing what I LIKE in the Akita, is that wrong? Or should we all just bow down to you and say yes, that's not an Akita it's a Great Japanese Dog, coz a Great Japanese Dog DOESN'T EVEN EXIST (yet!) so until it does, then we'll argue it.

I see where you're coming from, breeding from Inu to Inu to produce this and produce that, fine, but why is it so wrong for me to want to breed from the different types to produce the large heavy bone with the delightful Inu look??? I really need you to explain this to me rather than shouting ur mouth off coz you don't seem to be giving me an insight into your 'knowledge' just whinging .....I'm only here to learn, as I've said before!

Oh and could you give me any figures as to what type of dog is in this country, or even the world at the moment.......like a percentage of Akita Inu with no American what so ever, I sincerely can't believe that there is ANY percentage of 'fully bred american' Akitas in the world as there has to be a jap somewhere in there......and then the 'cross breed'......can I ask what yours is??

I'm confused now - why would your Akitas turn on your crossbreed and not on each other? You say you plan to get more Akitas' and breed them but if they turn on other dogs have they got the temperament to be bred from? Sorry I don't know any Akitas - is it a breed thing? And you say you don't want to reproduce any of the bad health problems - have your present dogs got issues?

Hi Poppy

Ive no idea why her Akita's turned on the cross breed, my Akita's live alongside a Collie cross and they all get along with the collie cross. Maybe they just weren't socialised enough as puppies.

Thanks Akita Lover - I was developing rather a dim view of Akitas after reading Akita Lees' posts! I take it they are fine with other dogs if well socialised!

Hi Poppy

Akita's are very dominant dogs, like to be the top dog in all cases usually. However if you socialise them with other dogs, big and small. Children, Cats anything and everything then they make well rounded dogs. Bitch Akita on Bitch Akita and the Same with male on male is risky as they both fight to be the top dogs, however saying that a friend of mine has 5 bitches and 4 of the bitches eat together and play with no problems. Its just how you raise them. My Akita's tolerate each other, i wouldn't let the bitches play unsupervised just incase, but they all now get on great with my male and with our friends rottie they play great.

They sound a bit like Staffies in that respect then!

And bred with temperament in mind Poppynurse, rather than producing puppies to sell without sufficient knowledge.

here here Val!

I agree with you on that one! It sounds like Akita lees pair may be lacking in that department. <<<with one quick nip to the throat he'd punctured every layer of skin in this dog's throat?? >>>

I was also a bit worried about the health problems she's talking about - <<<   and obviously I will not want to reproduce any of the bad health problems present in any of my dogs. >>>     have they got these as well as dodgy temperaments?

Akita's should be Hip Scored and Eye tested before they are bred from. Luckily hips are not that much of a problem anymore in Akita's but thats down to careful breeding with hip scored dogs. Their temperaments are okay if raised in the correct way. My Akita's when folk visit them are so shocked at the way they are greeted with loves and kisses, Akita's get so much bad press, its such a shame. I've never had such a loyal breed

I WAS talking hyperthetically ....if my dogs had health problems I would not breed from them, as people suggested I would only be interested in the money??

And my dogs don't have bad temperaments. I'd hardly call a dog defending it's food and guarding it's territory a bad temperament. May be some of us want to feel safe in the company of our dog, yet know that it will be 100% ok in certain situations.........others may want to die there's pink and shave their fur..????

But you've posted on this site that your dogs have attacked your crossbreed and that they are ferocious when out and go for other dogs? How can you say that they don't have an aggression problem and ahve good enough temperaments to breed from?

There was only a few incidents, and my 2 Akita's (Male and Female) get along great. My cross breed was simply a very daring dog. She would always, ALWAYS go in and take food, toys treats you name it off the Akita, and eventually it simply got enough and he would then TRY to make a statement to tell her who was boss, but being the dumb dog (in a kind way) that we knew she was, she never got the message so we had to get rid of her??

And what about other dogs that you meet?  On another thread, you posted.....

"They are loveable yet ferocious, only a few weeks ago a dog tried to come by him with a bone and with one quick nip to the throat he'd punctured every layer of skin in this dog's throat??

Is that what you want to breed?  Dogs that can attack another passing dog?

I think you'll find that ANY REAL Akita in this world today will more than attack another dog that comes near it's territory, never mind it's food!

I know Akitas used to have a very poor reputation in this respect, but that breeders were doing all they could to modify this negative aspect of the breed, and try to make them more acceptable?

Yes you're totally right and it HAS become more acceptable, as Akitas would, if they were left to what they used to be, attack any dog in it's sights, that's what they were like. Merely making a statement where food is involved, which is what most dogs do anyway, is not much!

It does say in a book I have, about what you mentioned 'You can mould this aspect of the Akita, but you will never get rid of it'.....

But that's what the reputable breeders are trying to do, Akita_Lee! They are trying their damnedest to get rid of aggressive tendencies! They don't breed from dogs with dodgy tempereaments! That goes for breeders of any breed, by the way, not just Akitas.

I don't accept that most dogs are food aggressive - most people train their dogs to allow food to be taken away with no problems, and if you know that a dog has a food possession issue it should be fed seperately to prevent problems occuring while you train it! Does all your knowledge come from books? You don't seem to be listening to what ppl on here are saying?

Jean,

This is exactly what we are trying to do, my Akita can eat her food, bone what ever without attacking other dogs. I feel Akita_Lee has so much to learn, and her childish nature just shines through.

ARE YOU FOR REAL!!!!!!! Your a fool!

I have just recieved this Email from someone who has been following your thread:

name: glenmoray (is a member but is trying to enable cookies)
Akitalee,
I dont know what you think you will do for the Akita as a breed by crossing the Jap and American types. Maby your heart is in the right place and sheer ignorance on your part, (albeit unintentional ignorance) is stopping you from listening to the advise that is being given to you here. The two willnot mix, there is insufficient line breeding for you to use as a base and you will spend upwards of 20 years trying to correct the leggy, thin, grumpy, big eared, long muzzled monstrosities you ave created. Forget your plans, start again.
Have your boy castrated, your bitch spayed and save up for a god quality puppy from either Japanese or American lines. Try your hand at showing, then learn from those more knowlegable than yourself.
Please do not try playing god with the breeds, it is no different to you breeding a Golden Retriever with a Yellow Lab in the belief that they are both gundgs and you will be creating a super working dog. leave well alone!!!
Please do not start undoing what it has taken people like Akita_lover and myself years and years of hard work to create.

Akita Lee - I think that your attitude is disgusting - this is as I understand it a powerful dog and you think it's acceptable for it to attack another, indeed it is required if it is a REAL Akita? And you want to breed more like this? Either this is a wind-up or you need to grow up or you're completely bonkers. I hope I never meet any of your dogs :( It sounds to me like you would be doing this breed a favour if you neutered your pair.

Thank you Poppy, its not just me fighting a losing battle with this twurp!

Well I think Glen Moray has just provided me with a lot more advise than you have this whole time in just a few sentences. And I'm sure he'll be very impressed with the members of his 'team' promoting the seperation and how they put it across to beginners and REALLY make them understand.....well done, NOT! You're not going to get anywhere by shouting down at people and quite frankly the only thing you've done to help me is show me Glen's e-mail! I understand a bit more now, and I'm not even CONSIDERING breeding for 2 years, this was just a base for me, if I come to understand this and agree with it, then may be I'll find different dogs to breed from, and have mine as pets??? I'm not going to learn from the likes of you though am I?? What did you try and tell me? that I'm a fool, I'm a twurp, I'm an idiot,,,,,this may be so but you didn't say why, and you wouldn't have got the chance to either not with me nor any other person in the world I guess, if you were face to face because you'd flat on your back with that 'attitude'......people say mine's bad!!

I'll say it again, I'm here to LEARN, not to tell you I'm breeding this and I'm breeding it tomorro.....jeesh! 

Be flat on my back would I? Oh so thats how you behave, spit out your dummy cause you get told you don't know enough and then take a swing at someone LOL. Like to see you try. Grow up Akita_Lee, learn there are easier ways of getting a point across then TRYING to put me flat on my back!

Oh by the way Glenmoray is FEMALE and i will PM you her email address so you may "put her flat on her back also" CHILDREN..... who'd have em!

For your information mate I was talkin about YOU and only YOU ok I made the mistake that Glenmoray was male so what?? I still said she gave me more advice than you ever did, so why would I say I'd hit her?? I simply stated that you'd get more than a few cracks off ANYBODY with conflicting ideas of the Akita than yourself, the way you try and put things across, calling people idiots, fools and twurps coz they don't agree with your idea??

And by the way, I'm not actually female, I'm MALE! and yes I think I'd have a pretty good, in fact definite chance of it......

Oh I see, so not only are your Akita's aggressive, you are too. I may only be a 5ft 2" female, but i would just love to see you hit me! Would you like my address you childsih fool? Is it any wonder your akita's can't behave when you behave so badly? Hitting a female, says alot about your character. Oh and NO, i would get a "crack" from everyone who i said thi sto, as i'm speaking with experience and Knowledge..... Something you seem to lack in!

Oh god, so not only did u mistake me for female but I mistook u for male?? haha, no I just thought u were being cocky with me because you thought I was female ?? and vice versa! ......forgotten!

And no, I wouldn't necessarily hit anyone never mind a female, I just don't take to being called a fool and idiot that's all, maybe I could call you a fool and idiot for your views but do I?? I think not!

I'm listening to your ideas, which you've only learnt over the years, you're simply cutting mine off with no explanation other than 'idiot' .......'fool' ....how am I to learn that way???

I'm sure you knew absolutely everything when you were 21 didn't u....let me guess, yes u did???

laughable!

Not being cocky, just trying to make you see sense. And in all fairness your posts are rather confusing so everyone on this thread seems to be geting confused by your dogs behaviour.

My advice would be if its food aggressive, don't take food out, ANYWHERE. let it eat at home till its hearts content but take precautions when out, this is a big breed.

Wow! Oh wow! you have just gave me the first piece of advice all day without a coky phrase or knocking me down, may be I'll take that away with me and learn from it?? That was good!

Akita Lee - I'm not "attacking" you - I was just commenting that your story, about having been sold a cross akita first, when you wanted to get "into" akitas, then realising that this was not what you really wanted, showed the importance of researching first - you can't change what has happened, but hopefully someone else reading into this thread might not make your mistakes.

When I talked about a dog getting hurt, I was meaning having to be rehomed, and losing its security.   You are realising how important security is for a dog, from your other posts.

I see no point in lecturing about what HAS happened - you know where things should have been different now, and its important that things are done right from now on.

Regards
Margot

Can't find the original post where it mentions about one bite causing serious damage to another dog.  Is this something to brag about???  I sincerely hope not. 

At the start of this, I was thinking that maybe you were getting a hard tmie (akita_lee) about the dog and bitch being in season as I have a pointer bitch in season and an entire GWP and we've not had any problems - obviously taking precautions but it hasn't meant her going into kennels.  Anyway, after reading some of your posts, I would take the advice of having your dog and bitch neutered and learn about the breed before you even contemplate breeding.

Also, how can you have all the experience necessary when your oldest akita is only 16 months old?  In most breeds, this is not adult and I'm sure you will not have seen all of his characteristics yet so I am fairly certain, in saying that you don't know everything about the breed.  Most people would not even contemplate breeding with only limited experience of a breed.  How do you know you will still like Akita's once they are full mature?

Helen

Once again someone jumping the gun! If you read back I think I actually do state that I know not much about OWNING an Akita, I know a lot about the dog itslef, that's all. And my plans are to breed but not for 2 years so who's to say I'll be using these I'll say again I'M WANTING TO LEARN BEFORE I DO, so anybody else thinking of commenting please read ALL threads before posting!