I have had to consult a behaviourist as I am having problems at home and at my mum's with the Fox Terrier occasionally attacking the min schnauzer.  Fox terrier is 4 years in December and min Schnauzer is 13 months.  Up until the min schnauzer was about 8 months they both got on fine (even played together) then when my son was watching them one day the fox terrier attacked the min schnauzer for apparently no reason.  He does not bite him.  He seems to flatten him and sometimes shake him.  We tried to establish a pattern but to be trouthful I am at a loss.  The behaviourist suggested that it was because the min schnauzer was reaching adulthood and he was producing 50% more hormones than normal (both dogs have not been neutered).  She has suggested that the min schnauzer be neutered but not the fox terrier as this would only exacerbate the situation.  I have spoken to the vet and have actually book the min schnauzer in for Wednesday.  But would like to know if anyone thinks by doing this the situation might improve.  An example of an attach actually took place this morning as my son went out the front door to go and play football.  Both dogs were at the front door, he told them to sit, stay (which they did) he then went out and shut the front door and the fox terrier attacked the min schnauzer by lunging at him making a snarling noise and then left him.  I am frightened that something more serious might happen eventually.  An added complication is that my brother bought a border terrier which is now 7 months old and it is my mum who looks after my dogs during the day while I work as I could not have the dogs otherwise.  He never asked if she could manage another dog (which is not neutered) and has landed her with this as well.  The fox terrier seems at present to tolerate the border terrier as it lies down and submits to it but I am frightened that the same situation will arise in the near future.  I have  also considered trying to rehome the fox terrier but it would break my heart to do so.

I would welcome any comments please.

P.S.  At night and when left during the day for anytime they are fine.

I've already replied to this in another post, but as we have a little more information here there's a couple more points I'd like to make........

Has this situation arisen since the arrival of the new dog?

Could the attacks be as a result of frustration from the older dog (ie - the example you gave they may have been hoping to go out, when this was denied, the Terrier took his frustration out on the younger dog.  Was the Border terrier around at the time of this incident?

How do YOU feel about your brother's behaviour?  Do you feel he's taken advantage of you AND your mother, possibly even putting your dog at risk?

How do you know they are fine when alone during the day?  Could incidents be happening, but because blood isn't spilt, nobody's aware of it?

To be honest we do not know.

The attacks could be frustration from Fred.  An example is when he tries to get into a room and we do not let him he can if he sees bert attacks him.  The border terrier is not alway around when these things happen.  Today's incident the border terrier was not there.

I do feel annoyed at my brother's behaviour by buying a dog when he did not consult anyone about this and was looking for my mum to look after it during the day.  He has now said that if sam (border terrier) becomes a problem he would have to rehome him or get him put down (putting pressure on me).

I don't.  At night I do not hear any noise from where they sleep.  During the day the all come to the door when you arrive back and appear to be fine.  The min schnauzer and border terrier are always first to come through the door and I try to acknowledge wire fox terrier first.

It may be worth setting up some kind of recording device to see what happens when you aren't there - it could be they will have a 'set to' when the postman calls or similar - which would give you a further clue..........

To be quite honest, if niether dog needs medical attention, I'd be inclined to leave them to it, don't interfere or pay them any attention, and hopefully they will soon establish their revised or otherwise pecking order.  If you try and interfere the situation will simply be prolonged......

I would be concerned that by castrating the mini schnauzer he may become a bigger target for the fox terrier as he will be less inclined to 'argue' back.

I agree with digger that it may be a question of letting them get on with it as they need to decide who is going to be top dog.

I own two entire male schnauzers and although i have never had any problems of attacks there is a time when the pup reaches that next stage of maturity and they challange one another over toys or attention to determine who is top dog.

It sounds like your Fox Terrier is trying to dominate and place himself above the new family member. Given time he may stop. Another thing to consider is stress, with the new schnauzer and your brothers dog having just come into his life he may be feeling a little left out. He could be lashing out at the schnauzer as he associates him with the stress.

Do the dogs have time away from one another? Try seperating them for a while, giving them both lots of attention individually and then bring them together for supervised play sessions. It could be that their relationship just needs to be re-built due to the new situation.

I think there are areas to explore before you castrate the pup. Ultimatley its up to you and i wish you lots of luck :)

Roxanne

Dogs don't tend to argue for no reason, so I can't really see the FT taking it out on the Schnauzer because he will no longer fight back - dogs actually prefer to live a peacful life as it's better for self preservation, long life and better chance to ensure their genes go on to another generation.

I have decided not to get the min schnauzer neutered after reading your replies.  We had a peaceful weekend and also a good day yesterday.  I telephoned my mum today to see how she was getting on and she has had one incident with the FT.  He was out in the garden and barking at the next door neighbours German Shepherd (who he does not like!) he then came running down the garden and into the house where the min schnauzer was and attacked him again I think it was fraustration.  I think this is a training issue and would not be solved by getting the min schnauzer neutered.  Any suggestion about how to go about this?

Do you have any 'ragger' type toys?  Most Terriers adore these, and if you can steer his attention towards this and make if fun for him by playing the game with him, he should start to look to the ragger to relieve his frustration, rather than the other dog.

When the min schnauzer was smaller this is what the FT did he would take out his anger on a toy.  I must admit that I thought that toys might make this worse so there are not as many around.  I will go out and buy a couple of raggers for him and keep one at the house and one at my mum's.  Thanks for the advice.

My border collie does this to my retriever, when i put her ball away when we finish playing out on a walk she turns and run aggressively at the other dog, who has done nothing. It is frustration causing redirected aggression in her case. I cannot stop it, only manage it by catching the collie, so that she can't have a go until the moment has passed.
Although it is difficult to say what, something is causing the FT to be very frustrated. Does he get enough exercise?
It doesn't sound as if neutering would help. If you did ever decide to neuter for behavioural purposes i would perhaps suggest a tardak injection first, to mimic the effects to see what would happen before anything becomes permanent.