Can any obedience people help me? My 17 month old Goldie is very lazy in her sits, she sits like a puppy with her hips rocked to one side. I am trying to correct her by making her sit up (luring with food), and only clicking and treating for straight sits. However a second later he slumps again. This also means that her down is difficult as she has to rock to one side, and her legs are not underneath her. I have gone back to basics luring sit and down and only rewarding the good positions, but the minute i step back she goes into lazy mode again! How can i get her straight for the distance control?
Lucy

The way I did it in the past when I used to work obedience was to keep all sits in heelwork training very short. Dont give her time to relax. Because it is easier for her to come back up, as she starts to walk, from the correct straight sit, by keeping the stops short she will start to think that it is easier to sit straight that lazy.

Regards, John

John's idea would work beautifully :)

Another idea is to see what happens if you wait just a little - a very few seconds  - before you click,  and then veru very gradually extend that time.

Hth
Lindsay
X

if you are using titbits or food,encourage her ALL the time when sat to keep looking up "smartly",you can say something like "what have i got" or "watching.....ready steady" in a exciting tone ,really try to get her to stretch & extend through her neck,........thats at heel

if you are doing a sit stay,try setting her up from the front,& make sure you are happy with her front feet & her tail.ie shes comfy,
i also put my hand in the collar & say sit up before i leave
go back while shes beeing good,say good sit,pat her bottom,titbit,command again & leave

for Dc,dont step back yet,shes not ready, stay close for the sits, step back for the other positions if you wish.

dont put up with lazy sits at all at any time in any exercises

make sure shes not on a slippery surface or anything

start off on very short ones

You have ruled out any physical problems haven't you?  Sometimes it is worth having the dog thoroughly checked out for any spinal, bone issues that may impact on a dog's posture............

Agree, it's always a good idea to have that checked out in case.

Lindsay
X

I do worry about that. Is this a sign of hip displasia? As we took her on from a friend with an unplanned litter her parents were not hip scored, so i have always been wary.

I once heard a "dog expert" on tv (cant remember who), pointing out that hip dysplasia can be a cause of a dog sitting like that instead of upright....suggest you get the vet to take a look
Cathy

My BC with severe HD had the straightest natural sits of any of my dogs & never sat sloppy.  On the other hand my imported GSD with perfect hips(0:0=) was a pain to get to sit straight because he was quite a old dog to start training as he had to do 6 months in Quarantine 160 miles away & at 9 moths old was still doing"sloppy puppy"sits. My first male BC had good hips but preferred to sloppy sit in the stays, in heelwork his sits wer fast & straight.

The sitting sloppy has nothing to do with hips in my experience, some dogs sit that way naturally. One of my Cavaliers sometimes lays with his back legs flat out behind him & then sits with his legs still in the same position, it looks very painful but obviously isn't He hasn't been scored as I do not intend using him at stud.

The quick sitting is a good idea & treating(if you use treats)only if there is a straight sit

Sloppy sits can be learnt by the dog if you don't correct it immediately.

It could be many things, a sub-luxation of one of the verterbrae etc.

Someone I know has a dog that was observed to be sitting in a very odd position and it turns out that its bones had fused in an odd way probably as a result of an injury and was in pain in the sit.

HD is only one possibility.

I would recommend that a vet checks your dog out and/or possibly a chiropractic.  It would be unfair to demand something from your dog that it is physically incapable of doing............

my boy has bad hips & never puppy sat!!!!!

same michelle...my girl has extremly bad hips but she's the girl with the straightest sits, never to my knowledge has puppy sat!  However, another bitch always puppy sits with an average hipscore for breed!!!  hers however is pure laziness!!!

yes i think its got alot to do with attittude (dogs)& also allowing sloppy sits at all!

WIth some dogs it may well be laziness, and poor training; in others however it MAY be a physical inability.  It would make sense therefore, IMHO, to eliminate that as a possible cause so that one could be sure that one was not asking the dog to do something that was extremely difficult for it to do.

To ask a dog with good conformation, superbly fit and well trained to complete a task such as clearing a 6ft scale is not unreasonable.

To demand that a dog with poor conformation, unfit and badly trained to jump 2ft may be..........

Lazy sits, often called "Puppy Sits" are very common and are NOT a sign of bad hips and neither causes it. You so often find it common in gundogs possibly because a working retriever often spends half an hour or more sitting waiting so it gets itself comfortable. It seems to be a thing handed down through the generations as an inherited trait. At dog club I find if there is a lazy sitter it is so often the Labrador or the Golden. My Anna is a lazy sitter and has 2/2 hips. When I was working Obedience it was something I worked at right from day one so that it never became a habit but with gundog work I'm happy for them to get comfortable.

Regards, John

very interesting post John,makes alot of sense!

lucy may have her work cut out correcting this if shes allowed her to do it!

I didnt say it was a cause, john...I merely said that I had heard from one source that it MAY be. It certainly could be due to laziness...but if it were my dog I would prefer to exclude a physical problem, and not simply assume anything.

Unless I had other reasons to suspect medical reasons I would NOT go to the vet with only a lazy sit as a symptom. Also don't run away with the reason for a lazy sit being laziness on the part of the dog. We may call it this but really it is not laziness on the part of the dog. There is no way my Anna, or for that matter most working gundogs could ever be called lazy yet they sit this way. What is really happening is that the dog it getting it's self comfortable, nothing more or less.

I am all in favour of being careful over problems but there must be a good reason for taking a dog to the vet and this on its own is not. All it is doing is panicking the owner for no reason. Yes there may be a problem but lazy sits are not on there own a symptom.

John

All I can do is speak from experience and whilst lazy sits may, in the majority of cases be no cause for alarm, it has been an indicator of pain in some dogs.

Personally I would always prefer to rule out any physical cause first before insisting on a particular position.  I know that the owners of the dogs who WERE in pain felt very guilty for insisting that their dog perform a task that was causing stress and discomfort.

Panic should not be an issue, people post problems which may be major or minor and which could have a variety of causes, the more possibilities that are brought to their attention the more sure they can be that all can be investigated and, if necessary be discounted.  A process of elimination needs to be followed so that the correct action, if any, can be taken.

I would never ever NOT take a dog to the vet if I thought it needed it. If a lazy sit is accompanied by difficulty in standing up or if there is an occasional limp then I would be the first in the queue at the vets but a lazy sit on its own is not a good reason.

We must be aware on here that we are often talking to people who do not have our experience so yes, we should air on the side of caution. Saying that, we should also not cry wolf when there is no reason. Vets these days charge anything up to £50 just for a consultation and although I would always go for safety I would not line the pocket of the vets for no reason. If anyone has £50 to spare then I would rather they send it to me.

John

Some breeds are definitely more inclined to do 'sloppy sits' than others. Labs especially. Probably because they would prefer to be doing something more interesting than walking round a village hall. ;-)

Not only that Havoc, but of course the ground makes a difference.

there is a difference to how long or how likely both dogs and ourselves are to assume certain positions depending on how comfy the surface is................