Hi everyone, I need help! My bitch is now near a week into her first season and my dog is on alert!! I've never experienced this before so I don not know what on Earth to do! I understand in approx another week or two my bitch will be ready and wanting him and he'll be wanting her more than ever!! The problem is she's only just six months and there's no way I'm letting it happen it just isn't fair. I just want to know what are the best methods of keeping them apart but keeping the peace at the same time??? I do plan to mate them in future, when tested etc, but not now!

I'd be grateful if anybody could tell me of any helping ways? I've heard about contraceptive....does this work and what 'damage' does it do? Bitch 'spray'...what is it??......any info would be much appreciated!

Going by your user name of AKITA I am asuming that is the breed you have. If you do not have a kennel or a safe place ie a secure seperate room them I would put one of them probably the dog in kennels. Strong powerful dogs will find a way to get to the bitch and that can mean tunnelling their way through walls.   They can mate if they want through cages.  You male dog may start howling etc.

Absolutely.  For the dog's sake as well - put him into boarding kennels, and do it NOW.  If the bitch is already 7 days into her season, they should not still be together. 

With anything but toy breeds in an average house then boarding one of them (preferably the male) is the only answer if you withs to preserve your sanity.

This is one of the main reasons many people keep one sex or the other.  I have five bitches, and part own a male who doesn't live with me.  He lives in the country and there are kenenls, and things still get strained when the girls are in season as the males tend to go quite brainless and can get upset, can also become dirty scent marking the house, and of course being noisy.

Bitches have produced litters from early-in-season matings (within the first week of season) so as others have said, get your dog out of the house NOW! Either boarding kennels or send him to stay with a trusted friend or relative, before his life (and yours, and that of all your neighbours) becomes hell! He is now aware that she is in season so all the sprays and tablets will have no effect on him (though they may on outside dogs).

Is it not possible for me to try to adjust the dog into sleeping in the kitchen at night now, before she becomes more 'ready'?? So when she is ready, he doesn't feel upset even more by getting relegated to the kitchen, as they sleep in our room with us normally haha!! I do have a kennel in the yard where he could stay, but he's never slept outside before, so I don't know how he'd react?

At the moment they're seperated whilst we're out but together when we're at home, as she will not stand for him yet, she goes for him! But I do know that in a few days she'll be 'ready' and it'll happen if allowed.......to be honest I cannot afford boarding kennels at the minute and there is nobody I can think of off hand who I could TRUST completely with him. Has anybody else dealt with this before and if so how did you tackle it?

This is exactly why most small breeders don't keep dogs!  Unless you have facilities (and a lot of space to keep them apart - scent travels!!) then it's not easy to keep bitches in season with entire dogs around.  I can use the most suitable dog for my bitch in the country for a stud fee and a tank full of petrol!!
All dogs are different.  Some hardly notice and others cause such a noise barking and howling that the neighbours complain, they chew doors, jump through windows to get at a bitch in season.
You need to do something now before your dog gets more distressed.  If he is fretting now before she is receptive, he won't be happy in the kitchen when she is ready to be mated.  And the bad news is that he will be worse once he has mated your bitch and she comes into season again.

So does this mean that it MAY be possible to start sleeping him in the kitchen/outside and keep the peace?? Just depending on the dog?

I know what you mean in getting worse as I had a cross breed bitch before which he got to and they did in fact mate, but I didn't see the signs because he was only very young and didn't change in behaviour at all, I think because he's had her, he now knows and this is why he's worse!

Can the scent given off by the bitch not be neutralised ???

I would think it's a bit too late in the season now, because he's already noticed. It should really be started as soon as the season starts. You could try though - get some Amplex tablets from the pet shop today and start giving them to her. But as he's in the same house her scent will be on all your furnishings - get washing! And separate them now - not in a few days.

what are these 'Amplex' tablets?

and where do you think is best to keep him, kitchen or outside??

Amplex are chlorophyl tablets which help mask odours - bad breath etc. Antimate tablets are similar. But they only really work to keep strange dogs away from your house - they're not strong enough to mask the scent within the house. And I would definitely keep him outside the house.

A major problem about keeping himin the same house as her is that it's very easy for someone to forget to shut a door, or for him to barge past.

Some dogs (like fellas ;) ) hardly notice attractive females - others keep their brain below the waist!!
I doubt if you will have any peace keeping them together because your dog has already noticed that she is in season!  He's only trying to do what his hormones are telling him is right.  He's not thinking about you at all, I'm afraid.

I understand all of this and am grateful for your help, he's a VERY obedient dog and I wonder if when he starts misbehaving or howling he'll listen when told to be quiet?? How many dogs actually DO howl to get in, or preferably if anybody knows, how many akitas?? as the akita isn't a dog to bark etc....

My dogs are generally almost silent, but the howls from one (the other isn't too bad) when there's a bitch in season in the vicinity can be heard all down the street! Especially at 3 in the morning! After a few days of broken sleep everyone's temper becomes very short ...

You shouldn't be allowing your male to even attempt to mate this bitch to see if she's standing, she's 6 months old ..... WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!!! Honestly, I have four Akita's and they I manage to keep them seperated safely without problems, This is a big breed you've got, if he decides he wants to mate your girl with you present or not he will. Trust me, get them seperated NOW!

I haven't 'let him' do anything don't worry! I didn't even realise she'd came into season as she's so young, I just came down to notice SHE'D mounted HIM then as soon as he turned she went for him, only then did I realise she was in season, obviously not 'ready' as she wouldn't let him near him. After speaking to a breeder I know he informed me to keep them seperated as in the days to come she will want him to mount her and this could NOT happen at 6 months, it would be devestating!

So, as you own Akitas can you give me some insight into your past experience and the best methods to keep seperated and any deterants you find useful?? Cheers.....

QUOTE: (At the moment they're seperated whilst we're out but together when we're at home, as she will not stand for him yet, she goes for him!)
This to me would say that he has tried to mount her and she's snapping!

I wouldn't have bitches and dogs if i couldn't afford to either kennel them at a boarding house or have my own kennels built in my garden. It doesn't matter how you seperate them as long as you do. My advise is, if you don't plan to breed for the next year to 18 months with this bitch then i would build a secure kennel and run in the yard for the dog or bitch to be housed in during seasons, because the way it's coming across to me, you'll probably end up with a "accidental litter" before you are ready!

My Akita's can open door handles etc and let themselves in (they are clever animals) so my guess is, if your male is kept in another room ie, kitchen whilst you are out, if he wants her as badly as he may do then he will figure out how to open the door and get to "his" bitch. The only advise i can give is get some kennels built in the yard for housing the dogs at this time.

hahaha you know, BOTH of mine know how to open the interior doors! Just this morning she didn't have a drink and woke me up opening the bedroom door!!

When I say seperated when I'm out I mean one in kitchen and one in yard! So there's no chance of anything happening then! By 'building' a kennel and run, how would you suggest I do this, I only live in a terraced house with a relatively 'thin' back yard. Although at the bottom there becomes a more wide space. I already have a huge kennel in the back - sort of preparing for this, but I don't know what I can build into the back which would see them both out there, but seperated??

Any ideas??

Before you got your bitch, what did you *think* you would be doing with your boy when she came into season?

If these are the only facilities available to you, can I suggest that you consider having the male castrated.  It won't help you at the moment but will save this hassle for the next 3 seasons before your bitch is old enough to be mated.  If your bitch proves herself to be good enough quality to be bred from, and passes the relevant health tests for your breed, then you can travel to a suitable stud dog, once you have prepared suitable accomodation for a large litter of 8 week old Akita puppies!

Well I'm on the market for a new house at the moment with a rear GARDEN my priority. I intend to build a kennel system at the back of the garden to deal with these situations. I just came on here to ask for help in the situation I face I now, as I have the future planned, whether it works is another story. I'm certainly not castrating my dog as I fully intend to breed from him with a good hip score and clear eye certificate, plus many champions in his lines why not???

I've just never been through this situation before and will be listening to every bit of information for help, and for future reference. This kennel I have in the yard, where would I go, or what would I do, in order to make a living space around it, where the dog could relax but not get out??

Could the breeder of the bitch take her back for the next 3 weeks?

I haven't thought of that, is this not having a 'cheek' asking him to care for and deal with my situation, he has dogs as well!

It depends on your relationship with the breeder. If I needed help my breeder would be my first port of call :) If he can't help practically then I would imagine he would offer advice

I could give it a shot I suppose, cheers....

Most kennels are only about £5-8 per night. Better this then your dog getting a hold of your puppy. A litter in a yound girl like that could kill her. If I were you I would borrow the money and get one of them spayed.

Keeping a dog and a bitch together is not the brightest of ideas if entire.  having the dog to use at stud is not the best idea neither as you can use the best dog in the country for a tank of petrol and a couple hundred pound.

Being a good owner also entails thinking well ahead of these situations.

If you dog has not marked territory by now you may start him off and he will continue from now on.

Think of the safety of your dogs.

I know this may sound a bit heavy but good experienced breeders don't take these kind of risks.

Pam

I know this may sound a bit heavy but good experienced breeders don't take these kind of risks.

Pam, you are referring to the owner BUT a good experienced breeder wouldn't have sold a bitch puppy to the owner of a young male without checking that facilities were available to keep them apart when the puppy came into season!! :(

Know what you mean Val. So frightening really.  A bitch this age could/would be terrified.   I wouldn't like to be the person trying to keep a strong dog like that off a young bitch.

Just hope for the puppy's sake he sorts something out now.

H i cant you let the dog stay with another family member, then he is away from your bitch

You say your dog has had a bitch - right then, even if you keep them apart at the crucial time (which can last in his lust-struck opinion for a week or more before he gives up hope), he may (probably will) resort to trying to chew his way through a door.  When my dog was a youngster, I put him in kennels because he rubbed his face raw by trying to chew his way out of a large galvanised wire run - even though my in-season bitch was in the house and exercised in the garden on the lead to make sure she didn't go near him and upset him.  His mental love-calendar had worked out when she would be ready even though he hadn't been near her since day 4 of her season.  I couldn't bear to see him in such a state (wouldn't eat and spent all day alternating between whimpering and tearing at the wire). Like your dog, he'd had one bitch at that time and was ready for more.

With a 6-month old bitch, you must take no chances.  If he mated her, it would surely cost you the equivalent of a week's boarding to have an injection to prevent pregnancy.

Akita_Lee, just because your boy passes his tests for hips and eyes and has many Champions in his line does not make him an ideal stud for your bitch. I have a bitch at my kennels that has the best pedigree money could buy however isn't a good example of the breed.

If i were you i would go to an outside experienced stud dog for your bitch. I have my own boy here and when he is old enough he may be used on a bitch of mine but i still use outside dogs for the quality. I have recently used a CH stud on one of my bitches, traveled 10 hours to do the mating and cost me dearly but i know with the lines both of the dogs have and the qualities they should produce a good litter. The other advantage was i used a well known show winning kennels stud so i got their "expert" opinion on my bitch as a brood.

There is so much to consider, have you ever seen a dog mate? Do you know how it works? How would you cope if both bitch and dog struggled during a tie etc? I knew nothing of this until i used an outside dog, and i learnt along the way, I have seen 3 matings now and still i don't feel i'm confident enough to do a mating myself!

With regards to your kennels, how wide is your yard? My kennels are 6ft wide by 8ft long, and there is plenty of room for the dog to live comfortably, however my dogs do get let out for a free run round my yard 4 to 5 times a day. Even if you can only fit one kennel and run in your yard for now it will solve the problem of housing during season. You can buy them from many places, canine kennels, A15 fabrications. Just do a search on google for dog kennel and runs. I paid £2000 for 4, 6 by 8 runs with kennels. If you only need one then i would imagine you'd pay around £300 to £400, you may be able to get these cheaper. If you want you can PM and i'll help you locate some kennels.

Just on another note and just to tell you how bad dogs are. I was out one day and one of my bitches was in the kitchen. A stray dog could smell she was in season and I kid you not when I say this stray dog nearly distroyed my patio doors at my kitchen trying to get into my house to get to her.  My neighbour luckily saw the dog and called the dog warden. This dog got through my secure garden somehow to get to my back kitchen door.

Put him in kennels asap or else he will be whining all night and breaking the doors down to get to her.He could also do her some serious damage if he gets to her at this age!!its nearly impossible to keep dogs and bitches apart anyway, but your boy will be so huge and strong i wouldnt take any risks!!good luck!!
on another note if you are in receipt of some benefits the dogs trust will subside them being neutered and it costs about  £25 i think!!

Hi Akita-Lee. I don't envy you!! You know I own one Akita male. I also have 2 unspayed bitches of a smaller breed, so seasons are a stressful time. However - I do have plenty of space. My dog's reaction varies from season to season. This last season we were really lucky in that we had a planned holiday when the bitch was ready for mating so he was already booked into kennels. When we brought him back after 8 days in kennels he obviously hadn't forgotten in the least & was still ready & raring to mate her (he didn't get chance of course). When she is ready for mating there is NO reasoning with him his whole attention is focused on one thing - how to get to her. This is a normally very obedient bone-idle dog who becomes a study in perpetual motion. If he can see her, he can't stay in one place for more than 5 seconds. If he can't see her he howls & if you've got close neighbours they will NOT be amused - sounds like 6 Huskies with the bass turned right up!!! Your boy MAY not be that bad as this is her 1st season - but things will only get worse and with your facilities as they are at the moment, the only sensible thing to do is to put him in kennels for the duration.
Oh - and I forgot to mention the whining - that's, like, non-stop for two weeks.

If everything else is out of the question then make the best of what you have, you have a kennel available outside, place your male there asap, feed him in his kennel keep the girl away from him from now on, if you have internal doors that these dogs can open you can buy a dead lock, that have a twist key for about £3-4, fit them on the tops of the doors and remember to use them if the bitch is in that room unattended. Give him plenty of exercise away from the bitch, you are going to literally have to turn your house into a fort, this will be for an average time of 3 weeks after she shows signs of interest in him, you can get bitch spray I have never used it and so cannot say how effective it is. It is a fine ballance about spending plenty of time with the male and female, as is he  will feel abanddond (not that that would be your intention) but to have him out in the kennel at a time when he so wants to be in that house he may see it that way, I would think you will be very lucky if he do's not howl. I have males and females and yes they are kept apart, but we are luck to have the set up to keep our dogs and bitchs this way. Good luck and when you get through thsi start makeing arrangements for 6 months time now.

I do have a descent sized yard for the 2 of them, I've been told the whining etc would be LESS if he could actually SEE her?? I want to try and get a joiner in and build a frame with a gate, shutting off one part of the garden for  a dog, leaving the other section of the garden available to get in and out from the back door, without contact with the dog sectioned off? This may work for seasons?

>I've been told the whining etc would be LESS if he could actually SEE her?

Not in my experience - in fact the opposite is more likely to true - out of sight, out of mind!

Well I feel something like this needs to be done anyway as it would mean more safety when keeping one of the dogs outside, say when one needs the toilet, there wouldn't be the danger of them 'tying' if one of them was securely sectioned off? What do u think?

Well yes, you will need a secure run, that goes without saying (for the dog's security from potential thieves, if nothing else)! But when the bitch needs to be taken into the garden for toilet purposes, why not get someone else to take the dog out for a change of scene? That way the bitch can toilet and be put back indoors, and the wee/poo cleared up and the area sluiced down to remove her scent before he returns. If this isn't done anyway he'll go bonkers, poor lad.

Our two lab girls are in season at the moment - Freya for the first time.   We have 4 Aussies (2 bitches, 2 dogs) and 3 labs (1 spayed).    We have kennels in the garden, and we find it best to kennel the girls in season, and keep the boys in the house.    By using the front door, and walking the dogs out of the front drive, and up the road - and always walking them first - and using the back drive gate, and walking the girls DOWN the road, we seem to be able to keep them all content - the girls get "off the lead" exercise on a 30 ft lunge line over the fields ....just in case.... and the boys get off the lead over the golf course!

By diverting the boys by keeping them as the "housedogs" for the duration of the seasons (fortunately, it seems that the labs will come in to season together, as do the aussies), we do seem to keep them all happy.

Thor does, of course, still "serenade" the girls with Aussie songs for about 5 mins in the evening, when they are let out for the "late night patrol" of the garden.

I know what works for one, doesn't work for all - but in your case, Akita Lee, I think I would seriously consider kennels for him for the next week - it will cost a lot less than the morning after injections!!

Margot

Also - I think the injection after a mis-mating works by putting the season back to the start again, so the bitch then goes another three weeks!!

In another post on this board asking about studing your dog you tell us that your dog had pups two months ago due to an accidental mating while you were out so you didn't have to do anything, why haven't you learned from this and planned ahead :( If you're planning to stud your dog you're going to have to come up with a solution as this will be a problem every single season and will get worse when he gets more experienced. You say you live in a terraced house - what are you're neighbours going to say when your dog howls day and night because he can smell the bitch? And no the sprays don't work, particularly since he already knows she is in season. For the sake of your dog and your neighbours get the dog into kennels or to stay with someone else for a week or two. And if you're not getting either of them neutered get something sorted in advance for the next season - it soon comes round. Have you tried ebay - I got three runs for £280 on there - but that still wont solve the neighbour problem if he's noisy.

"In another post on this board asking about studing your dog you tell us that your dog had pups two months ago due to an accidental mating while you were out so you didn't have to do anything, why haven't you learned from this and planned"

Boy am I confused. Who was the dog that had the pups is this another bitch?

"  Akita_Lee 06.10.04 11:50 BST  [Misc] [Reply]  

I know what you mean in getting worse as I had a cross breed bitch before which he got to and they did in fact mate, but I didn't see the signs because he was only very young and didn't change in behaviour at all, I think because he's had her, he now knows and this is why he's worse!"

and on 20.9.04 you said
"To be honest, I do not want to 'go through' another dog pregnancy and worry so much for dog and pups again so soon since my dog had pups only 2 months ago and I'm only recovering now!!!!!

Where is the cross breed bitch now Akita_Lee??

I'm sure that Lee has already considered this, but its worth mentioning to anyone else considering breeding that you really need a fair bit more than the cost of three weeks kennel fees available before you breed.

I'm a bit out of touch on kennel fees but if I assume 21 days x £15 = £315. I'd personally prefer to have more than that 'in reserve', particularly for a first litter and especially for a big dog like an Akita where vet treatment could be expensive. Yes, 'usually' much of the expenses can be recouped on the sale of the litter (providing enough have been born) but you still need to wait for two months after they are born.

Akita Lee also claims to be an experienced Akita owner ....

I'm not an experienced Akita owner, just an experienced dog owner.  I would never have a entire male and unspayed young female pup without knowing the basics of seasons, mating and planning what to do when the bitch came into season, yet so many owners do.  I am at a loss why people just don't think...

In reply to 'Bengidog' can I ask how old you are? and how you came to breed and learn about breeding? As I'm only 21 and REALLY interested in this and DO know a LOT about Akita's, maybe not the actual OWNING of Akita's as these are my first and the eldest in merely 16 months old!!!!! I am trying to learn as I go along and I believe the phrase 'You learn by your mistakes' would also apply to most peoples' past on this board, and more than likely yours. I understand you wouldn't have an unspayed male and young female puppy NOW but this is because what? Because you've learned and now a lot from the past, having never done this before I feel I'm trying really hard to learn and am on here regularly seeking advice from you people who have 'learnt from YOUR mistakes'......correct me if I'm wrong.

Hey people, been away for a while! I have made plans to section off my garden and be PREPARED for the next season! However, my dog doesn't seem to be noisy AT ALL! He's been doing great, and with him being a very obedient dog (although I didn't think it would have any bearing on the matter) if he does cry, or make noise he shuts up after asking him to be quiet!!!

With regards to the questions about my 'previous' experience with pups this was in fact with a bitch cross breed that I had, whom I gave to a family member shortly after I bought my second Akita.

This might be a silly question but why did you give your crossbreed bitch away and then go and get another dog? I thought dogs were for life :(