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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / fertility?
- By welshie [gb] Date 27.09.04 10:55 UTC
is there a fertility test for bitches?
- By Smudgley [gb] Date 27.09.04 11:11 UTC
No
- By Blue Date 27.09.04 11:56 UTC
Depends on the info you require.

A bitch can be tested over several days for ovulation.

She can also be swabbed/smear taken and the smear can then be evaluated over a period of time to see if there are cell changes.

Both observations can tell if a bitch has ovulated which I guess can tell you if she is fertile.
- By Smudgley [gb] Date 27.09.04 12:04 UTC
Blue ~ yes a bitch can be blood tested to check progesterone levels, which will determine ovulation has taken place ~ but this does not confirm if a bitch is fertile. :)

edit to add ~ cytology / smears will not confirm ovulation has taken place, but as you rightly say will show cell changes & from this will determine optimum mating time, but not confirm ovulation.
- By Blue Date 27.09.04 13:02 UTC
Smudgely :-)

I am not that experienced with the premate testing although used it a couple of times, I thought that when the test went to it's final colour ( I think white again) that ovulation had to have taken place.  Is this wrong?

They go through the 3 colours dark blue and light blue when they have actually ovulated have I got this wrong?

Also with the smears, you can smear for a few weeks after the dog has been mated and you get 2 different results , one if not in whelp and the other if in whelp. This is what I have read recently but again :-)) I have not actually done them myself.

just took this snip off the site :  1. As dark or darker pink than A.- this means she has not begun to ovulate. Repeat the test in 48 hours.
2. Lighter pink than A but darker than B - this means that the progesterone is rising and ovulation is probably going to occur. Begin testing daily.
3. As light as B or lighter. This means that ovulation has occurred and she should be mated without delay. (Pinaclepetsupplies)

Do you mean by what you are saying that even if the bitch ovulates she  may not be fertile?

All makes interesting conversation :-) Pam
- By Smudgley [gb] Date 27.09.04 13:21 UTC
quote - ""I am not that experienced with the premate testing although used it a couple of times, I thought that when the test went to it's final colour ( I think white again) that ovulation had to have taken place.  Is this wrong? ""- this is correct, it will tell you that progesterone is low / intermediate/ high, & when high she has ovulated so you are right it tells you ovulation has taken place, it doesn't tell you she is fertile.

quote - ""Also with the smears, you can smear for a few weeks after the dog has been mated and you get 2 different results , one if not in whelp and the other if in whelp. This is what I have read recently but again ) I have not actually done them myself. "" - this is not true, a bitch will have the same level of progesterone & other hormones if in whelp or not, which is why there is no pregnancy test for bitches.

A bitch can ovulate and be mated succesfully, but could in fact be infertile, there is no way of testing a bitches fertility, she can have her uterus scanned to check for abnormalities, but this will not tell you if she is fertile.

A male dog can simply be fertility tested. :)

Hope that answers your q's.

Smudgley.
- By Blue Date 27.09.04 14:22 UTC
Hmm  I see what you mean and where you are going BUT ;-) surely it is very similar with a male, he can be tested ie sperm count production etc but not produce puppies.

I have always thought and presumed perhaps wrongly, that when a bitch is referred to as infertile it is because she is not ovulating and likewise a male is infertile when he is not producing a high enough sperm count.  ( just like humans) :-)

Pam
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 27.09.04 14:47 UTC
But if a dog is siring litters with other bitches, surely that means his sperm is viable? ;)
- By Blue Date 27.09.04 15:14 UTC
JG ROFLOL yes I agree with you there.. can't see me winning that debate ;-) but I was just thinking as a comparision that a bitch may have had puppies already then couldn't after and likewise a dog could sire puppies but then not.

I just don't think it is as cut and dry  :-)))
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 27.09.04 15:26 UTC
I agree, there are many variables. So far the tests for a bitch will only show that she is ovulating - it doesn't mean that those eggs are fertilizable by all sperm, no matter how viable that sperm apparently is.
- By Moonmaiden Date 27.09.04 16:22 UTC
Sometimes for no reason whatsoever some bitches never take to certain dogs-yet they both produce puppies to other partners, that is animal breeding for you
- By Smudgley [gb] Date 27.09.04 18:44 UTC
Reproduction isn't cut & dry & there are bitches who are very fertile, ones who have poor fertility & some who are infertile & everything inbetween,But testing for it is impossible, as JG said, there's just no way of knowing.

With a male it's fairly simple (;) ) to fertility test. It's not just a case of taking a semen sample & checking that it's alive, it's also about checking lots of aspects of it, to ensure it's healthy. Including how concentrated it is, how mobile it is, if any are dead or (believe it or not) if any are deformed. Amazing but true. :)
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 27.09.04 13:33 UTC
Also a bitch may not be fertile with a particular dog, who has also been proved to be producing normal sperm.
- By Smudgley [gb] Date 27.09.04 13:43 UTC
good point JG ~ a proven dog who has a good fertility count could be mated to a bitch who has previously had large litters at what appears to be the right time, but may not take from the mating, with no explanation why. Very frustrating, but it does happen. :)
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 27.09.04 13:59 UTC
It happened to me on three successive seasons with my proven bitch and the Champion of my choice. After the first miss (2 good matings) I had her blood-tested for ovulation and Had 3 good matings over 5 days for the next two seasons. The dog was still siring other litters. The fourth season I used a full brother to that dog (only shown twice, but the first time was to take Best Puppy at a club champ show and the secong time was when he took reserve in Junior at Crufts), mated twice (his first time) and got a nice litter ... Very strange.
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / fertility?

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