Started bleeding 9-4-2004. When should I take her to stud?

Firstly,your'e obviously not serious about this coz if you were you would know how to spell the breed you have researched for years and years,spent all of your time and energy going to shows and talking to breeders to find just the right champion stud to complement your girl and after,say 8-10 years of learning everything you can from your mentor you are finally ready to breed,after ofcourse already finding homes for each and every pup that YOU bring into this world.........NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You asked "when should i breed my shih-tzu"   NEVER

"when should i take her to stud"  Take her to the vet instead and have her spayed!!

If you knew even a minute amount about breeding then you wouldnt be asking this question,i'm not  a breeder (and i know the answer) nor would i ever want to be,there are plenty of other backyard breeders and our shelters are over run with unplanned and unwanted puppies to be adding to the problem!!

When are people going to get that there is more to breeding than sticking 2 dogs together????

Geez i wish i never logged on this morning!

From a truly devoted shih-tzu lover with 2 SPAYED girls!

ouch!!  this may be a genuine question, admittedly this question shouldn't have been asked, it's one of the things you should know BEFORE the time arrives,  your reply comes across as very abrupt! after all, that's what this forum is all about, offering friendly advise ;-)

You are right Christine, I didn't spell it right. I want to breed the dog for personal reasons only. She is not a registered dog, nor is she a show dog. This is my first time at trying to breed a dog, as my other dogs have been spayed and neutered, Thank You.

To be honest, if she isn't registered then I don't think you'll find a reputable stud-dog owner, who would be willing to help you all the way and provide the backup your puppies will need, willing to allow their dog to be used. Which means you will probably have to used a second-rate dog; which also means your puppies, although very cute, are unlikely to be very good quality. :( Don't forget that you will be morally responsible for the puppies' welfare for the whole of their lives.

The other poster though rather blunt is quite correct the Question should be should I breed not when.

Only a small proportion of animals are ever good enough to be bred from  (even in nature only the best will breed, but the selection is even more rigorous).

You should only breed from your bitch if she is such a good specimin that she has something worthwhile to contribute to the future of her breed. 

She should have been evaluated against others of her breed in order to determine her quality, and you should be breeding in order to maintain or improve on her qualites and that of the breed in general. 

Today's breeders are the custodians of the breeds they are involved in, and their actions will affect what future generations inherit in regards to health temperamnt etc.  We owe it to future owners and breed lovers as well as the breed itself to do the best opossible job, or leave well alone.

This means an in depth knowledge of the breed and canine husbandry for a start.  Your message suggests you have little knowledge about the breeding process.

Resric, how old is your bitch, and has she passed all breed-specific health checks (not just a general check by your vet)? Because, as you know, people who produce puppies which turn out to have avoidable hereditary problems can and do find themselves being taken to court. I'm not a shih-tsu specialist, so you would need to contact the person who bred your bitch, the stud-dog owner or the breed club for advice. Of course you would need proof that the stud-dog is equally clear!

That said (because it is of course very basic stuff and I'm sure you've done all that already) the stud-dog owner is the best person to advise you if you are not experienced in these matters, because every bitch is different as regards her fertile time, and it varies from season to season.

Edit: Christine's post was harsh, but true! I'm also assuming that you have evidence that your bitch is of the 10% or so of pedigree animals that are good enough to breed from? That she conforms well to the breed standard? If not, or you don't know, then don't breed! Your post indicates you have a lot of 'homework' to do ...

I would have thought the breeder of this girl, would be a dubious person to ask, if she is selling the pups unregistered, did they give you a reason why they could or would not register your girl, did you get her pedigree but no Kennel club registration, if you have no pedigree you cannot be sure that a dog that you find for stud is not actually a very close relative of your girl. Please think hard before you do this you could loose your girl if there are complacations and if you are breeding to have a companion from the mother it would work out cheaper to go and buy another.

having pups is messy, time consuming , expensive and HARD WORK. Those 'cute' pups will make the kind of mess that an incontinent warthog can only dream about and YOU'LL be the person who has to clear it up - again and again and again. All those kind folks who had booked a pup will disappear like the morning mist once the pups are finally here and YOU'LL be the one left with 4 month old hooligans that no-one wants. If you do find homes then YOU will be the one taking back the unruly 18 month old with a serious chewing habit because you are the breeder.

Your bitch is probably the love of your life and I know that you think that having pups from her would be fantastic but please think again - people on here know their stuff and are all saying the same thing - thats not sour grapes just the voice of experience !. Why not buy another pup ? - use the Champdog site to track down a reputable breeder who can help you find a well bred, healthy pup to love.

This is excellent advice.  Many of the top people in their breeds had their first pet quality dog, and when researching realised that they were not of breeding quality.  they tracked down a reputable breeder from whom they bought a good pup, and then went on to study the breed show and then in the fullness of time started breeding excellent stock.

All breeders worthy of the name start by being mentored by experts in the breed to provide the knowledge that they lack.

Contactin the Ntional an/or regioonal breed club will enable you to make contact with such people, and usually the members bewlonging to the breeds clubs have a deep and true interest in their breeds, and are the best people to provide help and support.

All breeders worthy of the name start by being mentored by experts in the breed to provide the knowledge that they lack.

What a brilliant way of saying what I've been trying to on here for years!! 
(Wish there was a smiley for applause!!)

I may have come accross as harsh BUT when you love a breed as much as i do then you tend to be overprotective of them,as probaly do all caring owners.
I just have seen tooo many darling little shih-tzu's in shelters and on death row because their owners thought their dogs would make cute puppies,go take a look for yourself,it truly is heartbreaking,seeing it and listening to their stories would surely put you off for life.
What happens if your girl needs a caeserian,as shih-tzu's often do,do you have the money to pay for the op?
As others have said,you will not find a good speciman of the breed who's owners are willing to stud him out to an unregistered female,it may sound stuck up that a dog has to win ribbons and has to be registered but this is only to protect the breed!

One very important detail you never mentioned is WHY do you want to breed from your baby? To be honest i couldnt handle seeing my girls in pain from labour and being uncomfortable in pregnancy and running around in a panic frantically looking for her baby after each one is sold,now that truly is heartbreaking to watch :(
If you want company for your girl,then why not adopt an unwanted tzu or buy another puppy,much less work and money involved :D

My mum's dog accidentally got pregnant from a suposedly sterile dog and i saw the mammoth amount of work,sweat,tears and $$$$$$$$$ that went into that litter,it put me off for life,you couldnt pay me to breed a dog,if i had my way none of those puppies would have been sold as none of the potential buyers were good enough,for me anyway,LOL!

There are just too many poorly bred dogs out there needing homes,without you or anyone else ADDING to the problem.
Leave the breeding up to the BREEDERS,they are the ones that do it for the sheer love of their breed and they strive to make each litter better than the last,animal husbandry is not something one just dabbles in,it is a lifelong commitment of learning and dedication.Have you thought about what you would do if one or more of the puppy buyers wants to return the dog in a years time,do you have the time and space to take them back? There are just so many things to consider,it makes my head spin!!!

I dont mean to be harsh or mean BUT every word i have spoken comes out of pure love for the shih-tzu and i cant stand the thought of one being USED as a puppy machine or being mistreated in any way.

I will stop rambling now,i think you get my point ;)  Oh and by the way,there are 2 things i will not sugarcoat and they are canine nutrition and breeding,i will say what i think and what i need to get my point accross,talking all sweetness and nice doesnt seem to get far :(

Please keep us updated.

Thanks for the input. I can respect your opinion. I am breeding my girl for family. She has a Great temperament, and so does the stud which is registered, and belongs to a friend. I have already placed 4 of the future beauties.

resric, please take this in the way that it is meant - truly trying to be helpful.
Breeding dogs isn't just about putting a dog and bitch of the same breed together.  I know that's what happens in the human world, but even with a larger genetic base, nasty hereditary problems occur.  With dogs the gene pool is much smaller and so it is very important to know what is behind dog and bitch for many generations back.  In Shih Tzu there are many hereditary problems, with eyes, nasal folds, luxating patellas etc.  Even if your bitch looks OK to you, she may well have ancestors who carry genetic faults.  The fact that she is not registered does not bode well for her breeder being knowledgable about what she was doing!  If the dog carries the same genetic fault, and because of your understandable lack of knowledge this could well be the case, the pups that you will produce could have any number of defects, which will cause the pups and their new owners much distress and Vet's bills.  I'm sure this is not your intention, but you would not be doing the new (family) owners any favours by giving them pups that could well not be as healthy and good tempered as your girl.
If you really are hell bent on producing a litter of pups, then please buy a quality bitch from an experienced and knowledgable breeder, who will help and guide you what doesn't always happen naturally, especially in a short headed dog.

VAL,

Thank You, No offense taken.

resric
you are obviously breeding you girl for own reasons not for the good of the breed.What makes you think you can produce better quality pups from your unregistered ,un health tested bitch and the dog down the road than a breeder who has done things correctly for years.
If you don't even know when to mate your bitch how will you cope with the pregnancy and whelping!!!
Archer

Archer,

You are right that I am doing this for me. i have delt with pregnant dogs in the past when neighborhood running dogs would get in our yard someway and impregnate our mutt bitch. I have delt with weak & sick pups, and helped the mother deliver. This is my first time to do a planned breed.

Do you know what happened to each and every one of those pups?  Will you be prepared for any legal action that the new owners may take if nay of the pups has a genetic problem that could have been prevented, or the incidence lessened with a properly planned breeding of reserched parents.  Would it not be better to spay your bitch and buy in a good quality bitch pup that you could show and breed a good litter from if you fetl ready for such a responsibility.  It would be much cheaper to buy in a puppy than to rear a litter for which you w3ill be responsible for the next 15 years.

Barbara
I think we're wasting our breath!
Nikki

It is a shame as it is exactly this type of haphazard careless breeding that gives pedigree dogs and their breeders cuch a bad name. :( 

It is why when asked if I am a breeder I have to qualify my answer, as I hate to be lumped in with those that simply produce pups :(

Either way if she is planning on breeding from her bitch we should still give her some info :(
Your bitch should be on her 3rd heat or 2 years old before you ever consider it, also some bitches stand at different days. Mine bred on day 10 of blood and also day 12. Every bitch is different....

So many things can go wrong.Are you prepared if things go wrong that you may lose your bitch, or both? Is that worth it? :( I would truely think long and hard if this is the chance you want to take. My sister's friend bred her pugs, she had 3 and one was born dead. A couple of weeks later the second died, now she has one. Big delemma who gets the pup, the bicthes owner or the stud's owner (since pup was the fee stud owner), look on here I asked just to get other people's views on it.

JUST ONE LITTER
SO YOU WANT TO BE A BREEDER

Thanks for that Dollface.
Two very moving pages.
Lea

Heart rending!! But oh so true.Unfortunately toooo many people have that 'it won't happen to me or mine' attitude.
Archer

resric,

When I was 'young & foolish' I bred, or tried to, a litter of 'toy' pups.
I had done all the 'homework' and I had my 'mentor', a guy who had been in the breed for 20 years.
I had a 2yr old Ozmillion/ Patterjohn Yorkie dog and bought a slightly larger bitch. I can't rightly remember her breeding as it was almost 20 years ago. She cmae from Kinross in Scotland.
I had bred a couple of, as you say, 'mutt' litters 'by accident. They weren't really my litters but my parents bitches. So I had experience of whelping and pregnancy.
My experience of 'pedigree' breeding was horrendous.
My bitch began labour at 1am. First pup began to appear at about 3am. I realised there was a problem but my vet wouldn't come to the house or the Surgery. The first pup was born breech and her head was swollen so she was stuck with her head up inside the bitch.
I had to watch this pup struggle, I did everything I could and my mentor was on the telephone trying to give me advice, and eventually suffocate. I knew what to do but I panicked because I was on my own. My mentor was still in Scotland as my bitch was also 3 days early.
In the end my bitch, she was called Penny Bump, had to lay until 8.30am before the vet would see her at the surgery. The pup had been dead for a number of hours stuck inside her.
She had to have a C-Section. Then it cost £145 so what would it cost now???? I also had to have her speyed as it had damaged her inside. That was at extra expence.
The second pup died shortly after birth. The one remaining pup was not show quality, even though his parents both were.
He was gorgeous and we called him Junior but non the less the whole experience was terrible for both me and my bitch.

I have put this on just to let you know what can happen. I had at least 5 years experience with 'mutt' litters. It still didn't help me when my Penny Bump had her pups.

Penny Bump and Junior, and my other dog Tyson, lived long and happy lives with out any more puppies.
I did breed another larger breed bitch after 16 years without trouble but since I have always had my dogs, male and female, neutered.