First of all, everyone say hello to Flounder and Nemo my two new mini goldfish!!

I havent had goldfish since i was a little kid, and it seems like loads has changed (maybe i just wasnt told this stuff back then) Having to add water conditioner to the water etc..
Decided to get them a small pump and filter to go in their glass tank to keep it a bit cleaner and nicer for them.

I have a couple of questions
1. Ive been told its normal for the water to go cloudy the first couple of days (which it has) why is this? Is it just the gravel etc being disturbed? How long does it take to settle?
2. I know you can over feed fish - How much should i feed two really small fish, the reason i ask is that the little book that i had said once a day, a couple of flakes each but the fish food actually says 2-3 times a day (which seems like a lot)

Did you wash the gravel before putting it in the tank? There is often quite a bit of very fine sand in the gravel which can be held in suspension in the water for a while, giving it a cloudy appearance. Also when first filled air can get carried into the water. If you look very close you may see the cloudiness is actually VERY fine bubbles. Any of this should clear within two to three days.

Food should always be given in VERY small amounts and should be cleared up almost immediately. In the wild they would be on the hunt for food all day so feeding many small feeds is actually replicating what would happen. You cannot feed to many times, just too much in total.

Regards, John

Thanks John - I give them a couple of minutes to eat it and anything left after that is removed

Thats about right, they don't as such over eat but that which is not eaten will only polute the water in the tank. I have Goldfish in the pond but have an Oscar indoors. He's about seven years old and knows the food container! He is a replacement of my old one who died at around 15 years old.

Regards, John

If you haven't got the pump and filter fitted yet then that will account for the cloudy water. You need to get oxygen into the water. Would suggest that untill the pump is fitted to take a largish glass and turn the water over several times a day. The more you do this the clearer the water will become, although this is not ideal and a pump will be much more efficient, but will keep them from suffocating in the meantime.
There's a lot more to keeping fish than the eye meets as I found out myself when I got some. (couldn't believe it!) It would be a good idea to get a book or do some research on the net, they can be tempermental and are prone to allsorts of diseases that are easily avoided if you know what you're doing. :-)

As we're on the topic of goldfish..........sorry to take over this topic...............are Guppies cold water or tropical fish?  we're looking for a few more fish for our new (loads bigger) tank and saw Guppies advertised, they say tropical or cooler tank??  we have cold water fish, not tropical

Guppies can be kept in cooler water but are a tropical fish ideally. The warmer the water the quicker they grow and more likely to breed (and die sooner too). In cooler water they don't grow so fast and are unlikely to breed, the lower the temp the slower their metabalism the longer they live. You have to be careful that they are compatable with the fish you plan to put them with. (Angel fish love to eat them) They are also very sensitive to water change both temp, salinity, (they can also be kept in salt water) and ph level (should be 6.6 to 6.8) also water conditioners should be used to counteract water hardness.
Wherever you get them from ask the dealer about the water he keeps them in and try to emulate the same conditions at home.

Ok, thanks for replying.  At the moment we have a 4' fishtank with all the filters, pumps etc. but only have 4 little fish, 1 sarasa comet, 2 shubunkins and 1 little gold fish..........so we have the room, just have to check the conditions are ok (and company) for a couple of little Guppies too!

Any idea what other cold water fish are good for tanks??

Thanks again.

copied and pasted this from a aquarium forum. Someone was setting up a coldwater one and asked what types of fish besides gold fish they could put in. Although they recommend Guppies and Goldfish together I found that the Goldfish bullied them and nibbled their fins. Could have been because the Golds out numbered the Gups though.

Barbs - Several readily available species of Barbs are tolerant of temperatures into the mid sixties, or even lower. All are easy to care for, and are suitable for a community aquarium. They include: the Gold Barb (Barbus schuberti), the Green Barb (Barbus semifasciolatus), the Rosy Barb (Barbus conchonius), and the Two Spot Barb (Barbus ticto).

Bloodfin Tetra - Both the standard Bloodfin (Aphyocharax anisitsi), and the False Bloodfin (Aphyocharax dentatus) tolerate temperatures as low as the mid sixties. Bloodfins are offered in many pet shops, are easy to care for, and are quite hardy. They are active top dwellers and are best kept in schools.

Buenos Aires Tetra (Hemigrammus caudovittatus) - Easily found for sale, they will tolerate temperatures into the mid sixties. Standard varieties, as well as albino variants can be found. Like the Bloodfins, they are undemanding and easy to care for. They are suitable for a community tank, but will eat live plants voraciously.

Croaking Tetra (Coelurichthys microlepis) - Not often found for sale, they are an attractive fish that is worth shopping around for. Like other coldwater tetras, they are easy to care for and are suitable for community tanks.

Guppy (Poecilia reticulata) - As readily available as any fish, there are many attractive variations of this popular fish.

Hillstream Loaches - Although they are not often seen in pet shops, some species can be found for sale from time to time. Not all of them prefer cool temperatures, but most will tolerate temps that fall into the mid to upper sixties.

Native Fish - A variety of North American native fish are now being sold in the aquarium trade. Virtually all of them tolerate cool water. Availability varies from state to state, as do laws regarding which species may be legally kept in home aquariums. Keep in mind that some will become too large to keep in a standard aquarium.

Pearl Danio (Brachydanio albolineatus) - Like the zebra danio, this fish is very hardy and easy to care for. It will tolerate temperatures into the mid 60's without difficulty, and is easy to find. They are larger than zebras, but need not be kept in schools.

Weather Loach (Misgurnus angullicaudatus) - Readily available, this loach is one of the easiest to care for. Couple that with the fact that it will tolerate temperatures into the fifties, and it makes an excellent candidate for a coldwater tank.

Wimple (Myxocyprinus asiaticus) - Also known as the Freshwater Batfish. Not commonly found, it is an unusual fish that is worth tracking down if you like to have something unique. It will tolerate temps into the mid sixties.

White Cloud Mountain Minnow (Tanichtys albonubes) - One of the easiest fish to care for, a new gold colored variant has become very popular. They do best in cooler temperatures, although very low temps will lessen their attractive coloration.

Zebra Danio (Brachydanio rerio) - Outside of goldfish and the guppy, the zebra is the most readily available of all coldwater fish. They tolerate temps that fall into the mid sixties, and are very easy to care for. Long finned species are available, as well as a popular leopard spotted variety.

Hope that's useful. :-)

If you think about it, the normal room temperature is possibly well over outside temperatures which clod water fish are used to. The only problem with keeping several species of tropical fish with goldfish is fin nipping and in this respect Barbs are some of the worst. Particularly Tiger Barbs should only be kept in quite a large school, say 8 to 10 fish so that they spend their time chasing each other around rather than the rest of the community.

Goldfish in a reasonable sized tank will attain quite a size in a short time and as such would happily eat such things as Pearl Danios which will soon be only a fraction of their size. Native fish of the smaller variety could be used but still water "pond" types are better than river fish because the movement of the river water aerates it rather more than still water. Most river fish, unless you use a really powerful pump in the tank would suffer from oxygen starvation.

Regards, John

A few observations,

While it is possible to keep Goldfish and tropical fish together in an unheated indoor tank in the summer in Britain, during the colder months the tropical fish would experience temperature swings which would cause ill health and greater disease susceptibily unless the room they were in was heated sufficiently throughout the day and night, heating the tank to tropical temperatures would reduce the oxygen available to the Goldfish while increasing their need for oxygen, the resulting stress would sooner or later cause the Goldfish to fall prey to parasites /disease. 
Another problem with keeping Goldfish and Tropical fish together is that they carry different diseases and parasites and have different immunity and response to these diseases and parasites, so diseases/parasites that they wouldn't normally come into contact with can quickly have a devastaing effect on them. 
Once they attain a body length of 4" (by about six months in an indoor tank, sparingly fed) Goldfish have a waste output comparable to that of an Oscar or similar large Tropical fish, and so need a suitably efficient filter to keep the water quality high and large regular water changes. 
Goldfish do better in harder water, on the whole many Tetras are soft water fish and although it is possible to keep fish in water other than perfect, they only really thrive in water they are designed for. 
If you like both types why not get two tanks, one for coldwater and one for tropical (and thus starts the common fishkeepers disease multiple tank syndrome ;) )

For excellent information on starting your Goldfish/Tropical tank, biological filtration, info on fish and help and support for any questions you may have try this website/forum
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/

Sorry for the long post but you've hit the nerve of a fish nut ;)
Regards
Dill

Just to say - I was away from home last night and the tank has cleared up a lot this morning - the pump and filter must be working and things are settling down :)

Thanks for replying Dill...........and NO we're not having multi-tanks.........my hubby would just love that.......lol.  We used to have a big pond, then the kids came along so the pond went, now the garden is full, pool, 15' trampoline a couple of patios so no room for a pond, so that's why we decided on cold water fish.

We just fancied an assortment of fish, we're off to the garden centre in a mo, so we'll have a look see what they suggest is good with goldies, comets and shubunkins.

Thanks again.

GreatBritGirl,

Its good that your tank has cleared but this doesn't mean that the filter is working yet.  Biological filtration takes up to six weeks (or more) to become established and until then your goldfish will be swimming in their own waste, is there anyone who can give you some gunge from an established filter? (petshop, friend etc..) this would help your filter to start doing its real job which is to convert ammonia produced by the fish into nitrites and then less harmful nitrAtes.  Remember also, when the filter is established, never clean the filter material with tapwater, tankwater is used so that the filter remains alive. :D

6 weeks hmm my filter cartridge has to be changed every 2-4 weeks ........ i know plenty of people with no filter and there fish are fine, i had a goldfish who lived for 8 or so years in a plastic tank in tap water when i was younger. I am sure people are just getting more paranoid :-\

Just wanted 2 say i didnt mean 2 sound nasty / off in the last post - I'm just tired .... fish are doing ok, seem happy enough, tank is nearly completely clear nowand they seem happier having a pump in there... they seem to enjoy watching me on the computer

Many years ago my father worked at Hackney Power Station (East London). The warm water from the power station was pumped out into the River Lea that flowed next to it - there was a very large, thriving population of guppies living in the river :D

Daisy

My dad worked at Rolls Royce where they had an onsite fire brigade who had a very large tank which ended up being a very large fish tank :-D