feeding times are alot better. i have been doing something that archer suggested ie putting half of her food into her dish and add more after shes finished the first lot. ,letting her know i am giving her food and not taking it away. Also i put the dish on my knee and hand feed her a few biscuits first as michelle or claire sugessted this is also helping to build up her trust.
The thing is something else happened tonight, my 18 year old daughter was giving her a bit of raw carrot, this was in the dining room, we were not eating and no food was about.
The patio doors were open, at the same time she took the carrot from my daughter, a train in the distance approx 1/2 mile away went by and because it was pretty quiet outside the sound echoed around.
Believe me we could just hear it ourselves ! At that moment she rampaged round that room not sure wether to pick up the dropprd carrot or to run outside barking (aggressively) she was trying to do both ! during this time i calmly but hurriedly closed the door to shut out the very distant rattling of the wheels.
Megan had already got on a 'high' and would not be calmed by my gentle words etc She would have bitten anyone who was near her. My daughter just froze and was taken aback. All i could do to stop the behaviour from getting out of hand was to remove the dog quickly from the situation by putting her in her crate to cool off. This was not easy as i had to quickly put her on her lead and to practicly drag her to her crate just  3 metres away (in the same room) she was showing her teeth just before i got the lead and during the time i put her into the crate and she did have a go at biting my hand. I know this was the only option to me !
We have tried to analyse what happened . We know she is easily startled so we can understand the train thing, although it was a distance away ! I think the combination of the train and the food ie carrot piece was too much for her it seems. In the past if she has been eating and a cat walked across the bottem of the garden she would dash to the patio door growling and running back to her food possibly thinking the cat was a threat to the food. Or was she just having ago at the poor cat without it having anything to do with the food ?

I forget what you said about this dog's history...before you got her. She either was completely unsocialized, mistreated or she may just have been born with an inherent personality "disorder" or a very unstable temperament. I'm sorry if that offends or worries you more. I just can't help thinking that there is something terribly wrong. Is there some super expert trainer/behaviorist you could talk with? What about your vet? I am so sorry you're having this difficulty and that this poor dog is so terribly nervous and afraid of everything. I do hope there's something that will help, but I don't see how you can go on with the fear of being attacked or bitten. I read so many different posts about aggression and I usually can see the light at the end of the tunnel or see some remedy. This sounds very strange to me. I send you my best wishes and hope you can find someone to contact about this.

Carrie

hi jackie,see my reply on the other thread

Sorry to hear you are having a few problems. I have a 2 year old Border and he is wonderful. However, I recently had the same question as you - aggressive or frightened. Back in the spring I hated letting him off the lead on our normal walk because he loved chasing the rabbits and became deaf to recall !. Anyway, I started keeping him on a long lead (for my benefit, not his - I just panicked too much). However, not long after he would often bark, for no apparent reason, at other dogs - on leads or loose. He would pull to get to them and seemed quite aggresive which was totally out of character. Luckily, one day he went mad, barking at the dog who is owned by the lady who took his puppy class. I phoned her, firstly to apologise, but also to see what she thought of his behaviour. She said she felt it was apprehension, and that keeping him on the lead for so long had been too confusing for him. He saw the lead as a punishment and being kept away from other dogs made him worry about them. Anyway, she gave me the name of a lovely lady who has been so helpful and has allowed him to join a new puppy class (even though he's too old !). Back to basics really, meeting lots of new dogs in a safe environment. Funny to watch him though, all these new puppies barking and flying around - he just lies there watching - obviously thinking how childish they all are !. The transformation has been amazing though, after just 3 weeks. He's much more relaxed when he's out and I don't panic when a new dog comes up to him (he's been off the lead now for a couple of months). I've also learned that my behaviour didn't help him - I would shout and scream when he chased rabbits when if I'd just been calm and praised him when he came back none of this would have happened.
I wonder, when your puppy panics, how do you react ?. If voices are raised maybe it makes the situation worse. Also, when she jumps at bicycles etc, can you not take her attention away from them with treats, she'll learn that they aren't a problem after all. Don't worry about keeping her on a lead when you are on a pavement, it's only very well trained and trusted dogs you can do this with. Only last week a dog left his owner and ran across the road to see us - he was lucky that time.
She is only a puppy, lots of time with her in different situations with lots and lots of treats should solve lots of issues she may have. Has she been to a puppy class ?. Might be worth considering if she hasn't.
Good luck, hope she settles down soon.
Val

thanks for your info it does make sence doesn't it. im pleased that all is going well for you both. i can relate to the 'putting him on his lead when another dog is near ,we do this ourselves.i suppose it as been a continuation from our first outings.she is brilliant with other dogs and people,always friendly . It is only when she sees a bike, she has chased them one a couple of occassions fortunately the riders have been understandable and stopped to talk to her she has never ,never had a go at anyone riding a bike.
we got her from a lovely couple who had mum and dad both 'pet' border collies. this was the first lot of pups that was'nt meant to happen. the owners are friendly people who love their dogs and had always had borders, mum has since been speyed.
i saw megan ,all the other pups and parents from when the pups were just 2 weeks old.  i would visit them every week to see how they were getting on. so i have watched them play etc and how they interact with each other.things were always ok. we got megan at 8 weeks.so i know she had a good start . 
Also sorry to everyone for starting a new board i am still finding my way around the computor/message board so excuse my ignorance. thanks !
I did take megan to puppy training just on one occassion, my vet had reccomended it. i felt there were too many dogs and the weather was really hot as it was a summer evening.Some of the dogs were having ago at each other .The dogs were on a lead so the owners did have hold of them. I  felt overwhelmed by that and also by the abrupt nature of the trainer towards the owners.so i didn't go again ,i always ' meant to'  but i kept thinking about how i had felt that night and how bombarded megan must have felt about having to follow so many instructions it didn't seem like fun at all.
another group has been advertised not too far away and i had thought about looking into that first and sitting and watching the methods etc before taking megan, i wished i 'd had done that the first time.
I really dont feel that megan has got any 'mental' going on because we know how she is the rest of the time. megan isn't a shivvering wreck and is very settled most of the time .she is always affectionate towards us and wants cuddling/stroking etc she is really playful and likes to play all kind of games inside and out.
While i have been sat here talking to you guys megan is layed by my side ,an ambulance has just gone by with the sirens and lights going,megan did not even flinch !
I wonder if the incident last night was just a combination of a noise and being given the piece of carrot.megan is food orientated and will do any thing for a treat although she didn't earn the carrot through reward game etc . except when she sat for the carrot. this is reward for doing as asked.

Megan sleeps in her pen every night or at small parts of the day after a walk and if we leave her shopping etc. She does seem content in her bed, i have placed a large fleece cover over the top and sides leaving the front uncovered.She has a large pet quilt inside so it is warm and cosey, it is so roomy and warm even id like to be in there where it is peaceful ! she has never seen it as a place of punishment .
I do seem to have gone on for ages...sorry...
today is another day ,we have had a lovely feding time a lovely long playful walk and now she sleeping.it is definately like starting a family again.good job i have a routine !
Thanks to michelle for her offering her noise c.d . i will be in touch and would love to borrow it off you, you are very kind ..thanks. sorry it didn't do much for you border but you never know it may help us !

theres a really good book  called
"understanding the border collie" by carol price
its really easy to read & makes alot of sense.

Hi michelle thanks for getting in touch, i have been having difficulties sending you an email ,hope to sort it soon !
yes, i have heard about this book and i actually bought it from amazon yesterday, so can;t wait for it to arrive. I also have ordered another book about the games you can play with your dog called fun and games with dogs by roy hunter. i have also ordered a combined clicker/whistle to try

brill all good ideas to build up your relationship! i think youll be fine,

Fun and Games book by Roy Hunter is excellent for pet owners wanting to do some work with their dogs, I highly recommend it :)

Lindsay
X

Hi again jackie m
it definately sounds more like fear aggression to me.The main thing to do is when she reacts to things like she did to the train....ignore it.If you call her over anf try to comfort her it will reinforce the fear.Carry on as if nothing has happened.
I would also really work on getting her out and about as much as possible..the more she sees the less there is to fear.
Good luck
Archer

Hi Archer
I think it is more of a fear thing also, but mainly when food is around. We take her out every morning over the fields and ponds which she loves and also in the evening around where we live when she comes into contact with more vehicles etc this is the main problem area. when she hears the car and is coming either in front or behind ! she barks and pulls to chase them. It is stressful, but we start every walk with a fresh head and enthusiasm and usually come back worn out from keeping her calm, try to focuss her on something on something else, or just from tugging her back and saying "leave" do you think she will ever get use to seeing cars ? there are other borders around here who seem to be fine ! i know she is still very young and needs these experiences but it it difficult to keep going at times.
I will ignore her as much as possible if it continues, i know it will reinforce her fear if i react, Michell is sending a noise cd to me to see if it helps, although she isn't a nervous dog usually just if food or tit bit 's are around at the same time ! i'll keep you updated.

Jackie m
one of my dogs went through a stage of being fearfull of traffic. I found a nice place to sit(bench ,not floor) near a road and just sat for 10 minutes a day and let him do as he wanted and ignored him.By the time a week was over he was totally at ease with the cars passing by.
Archer

Good idea Archer i will try that .the ignoring will be hard but i will definately give 100% effort,
i'll let you know what happens.

Yes,please let me know how you get on
Archer

Hi Archer,
thought id let you know how Megan is getting on . Well i did what you suggested last night and sat on a bench for about 10 mins ,near to a fairly quiet road.. She seemed ok for some cars etc but takes a dislike to others ? and 'shouted ' at them pulled on her lead to chase them.
Not sure if she has a preference to model or colour !!!  I didn't say anything to her positive or negative, just let her get on with it .I shall do this every day to see if there is a change,
think about us about 8.00pm tonight !  keep your fingers crossed.
jackie

sounds as if you have already got this book what do you like doing mostly with your dog ?

has my cd arrived?

Hello Michelle
cd not arrived yet but it has been bank holiday,might get here wed/thurs ? we dont get our mail until about 1pm either ! i'll let you know when it gets here.
Megan fine, playing lots of games. Been out for some long walks , woodland areas and a very quiet beach about 1 1/2 hours drive away. Megan thought it was brill. Took her frizbie and a tennis ball had lots of fun !

Please be careful if your dog is afraid of traffic but you sit close by to it and 'let her get on with it'.  This is known as 'flooding' and can cause your dog to go over the top and be completely neurotic if handled incorrectly. 

You need to de-sensitise by finding a place where you can control the distance you and your dog are from traffic and once a distance is accepted by your dog, reduce the distance.  The distance must be reduced slowly and gradually if you are to benefit.

Hi suzieque,
thanks for your concern and advice, I hope it didn't sound like it was a busy road, the traffic that did pass was only few.
For an easy way out, the only distance that she /i would be happy with if she didn't have to see them at all. But she has to get use to seeing them. So each early evening myself and my husband have walk patiently and confidently around the area that we live, to get her use to seeing cars etc, This may seem like reinforcing the issue but i dont see another way as yet. This is not a busy area.
Sometimes she does not seem too bothered but sometimes she does ! can't really make it out.We have tried saying 'leave' 'its ok' and focussing her attention on other things.So now we are trying to ignore her barking and continuing what we are doing at that moment to see if that works !
If we have parked in a car park ie..to go walking, and another car goes by,even if we are in our car, she will bark, also at pushchairs ,bikes usually anything that has wheels.
I know this is a border trait so we are trying to be really careful with her and for her safety she is never off the lead around any places where cars are.
I do understand what you are saying but you cannot get away from the fact that wheels are everywhere, using a ball , treat to distract her attention doesn't always work or is not possible (but does around pond area where cyclists go). If you have any ideas  i would be very pleased if you could pass them on.
thanks alot for your input and i will certainly keep it in mind what you say about" flooding" i want to do what is best for Megan.