Been quiet this week with a terrific book by David Hudson called " Working Pointers and Setters". Bought it at a Gordon Setter Club fun day last Saturday - fab day, Morse had a ball in Beecraigs Country Park and stuck to me like glue on our woodland walk :D So I got to indulge my passion by taking a couple of GS a short walk and meet lots of owners/breeders and their dogs of all ages from 8 weeks up. The best thing is knowing I can handle a Gordon they were all very impressed with Manic Morse and I, so woohoo! :D Book is great explanation of why they do the stuff they do and very funny, should be read by anyone with the crazy idea of owning one. Hope to get out see some working pointers and setters asap. Another good reason to pass my blessed driving test.Oh I bought it cos it was in aid of the breed rescue, and I was very restrained and did not buy pups!

Question - why is it so bad to use a young dog in the beating line? Mr Hudson thinks its not a good idea.

Ah, Lorelei, I now have lovely image of you sitting on top of the highlands of Scotland, Glenfiddich in one hand, in front of a roaring fire, with Morse peacefully dozing at your feet while you read your book in perfect peace and quiet. Or have I got that wrong? :-D Good to see you back with us!
Tracy

How old a dog should be to go in a beating line is always one of those contentious points.  We have waited until both our spaniels were almost a year before we did much more than basic sit/stay/heel training with them whereas my neighbour had her cocker pup out in a beating line at 5 months old.

I will be interested to hear John's point of view on this but I believe that a dog needs to be steady before taking him into a beating line, many keepers wouldn't risk allowing a young dog to spoil the day for everyone and a young inexperienced dog can easily do more harm than good.  Shoot days are often the culmination of a whole years work for a keeper and they have to maintain a "tight ship" so they will only allow reliable dogs.  It goes without saying that a dog of 18 months who has undergone 9 months of basic training and a further 9 months of dedicated gundog training is a more reliable dog than a young pup.

If you are taking a dog into a beating line it must be steady. The line must always be kept straight and this can only be done if the dogs are all under complete control. A dog rushing forward would flush birds prematurely instead of gently pushing them to the place where they can be flushed a few at a time. On a large shoot you could have as many as 5000 birds in front of you and a young, out of control dog putting that lot into the air in one go gives keepers nightmares!

Another point is the amount of work the dog is going to be called on to do. There was a thread on here posted by Admin about dogs collapsing whilst beating. The amount of work these dogs do is phenomenal! Whilst you might be able to take a retriever out at a fairly young age picking up on a small shoot I don't believe it is being fair on any young dog to take it beating. Even on a small shoot the dog would run miles. Even picking up I would like the puppy to be 18 months and would ask the keeper if he could organise around me so I could just do a few selected retrieves. As far as the shoot is concerned I would not be there and would not accept any payment. The thing is, bringing the dog along slowly the shoot has the benefit for years to come.

David Hudson has also written a retriever book, "The Working Labrador"

Best wishes, John

This makes sense to me. It also dosent make a lot of sense to use a pointer or setter like this as shooting over them is so different from the driven shoots. I really admire the patience it takes to train a gundog. Even training Morse takes lots of patience and repetitions, and I have to be careful not to move too quickly and change things. BTW Tracy I hate whisky and have central heating, and my evenings the now are spent teaching Morse to search in the house. So far we can find toys hidden in a room without him seeing them placed, and I eat my tea with an article in my armpit for scent. You dont have to be mad for Working Trials ... no you definitely have to be mad to spend time in wet fields, carry tracking poles down to the footy ground and chuck treats into bushes :D

It is a waste of his natural talents Lorelei and that would be a shame. The problem is, in some parts of the country there is not the kind of ground which would allow for a walked up shoot so the owner of Setters, Pointers or HPR's have two choices, driven or nothing. Certainly it is by no stroke of imagination ideal, in fact it can lead to these groups getting a bad name in the field because the owner is trying to go against the dog's natural instincts.

Yes, it's hard work but the rewards of a well trained dog come later. Anna and the rest of mine have taken me to places I could only have dreamed of.

Best wishes, John